Islam and Women

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I'm talking about the revelations, when rules and ordinances regarding whether slaves should be married and whether the women in the hadith you cited had living husbands when that situation happened.


You aren't getting off the hook that easily; your avoidance about this demonstrates the faultiness of your claims.

This is what happens when you don't actually do your own research and rely on internet sites.

[Ansari1]

Dreamer, If I am not mistaken, I though you were a Shi'a defending Tashayyu more than once. Although it is a while ago.

Please read the following narration:

Book 015, Number 4082:

Hilal b. Yasaf reported that a person got angry and slapped his slave-girl. Thereupon Suwaid b. Muqarrin said to him: You could find no other part (to slap) but the prominent part of her face. See I was one of the seven sons of Muqarrin, and we had but only one slave-girl. The youngest of us slapped her, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded us to set her free.


They slapped the slave girl, and the Prophet sallalahu aleyhi wasallam commanded them to set a free. Compare slapping with raping. What would be the hukm if they or one of them raped her by force?

Abu Mas'ud al-Badri reported: "I was beating my slave with a whip when I heard a voice behind me: Understand, Abu Masud; but I did not recognise the voice due to intense anger. He (Abu Mas'ud) reported: As he came near me (I found) that he was the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he was saying: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; bear in mind. Abu Mas'ud. He (Aba Maslad) said: threw the whip from my hand. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; verily Allah has more dominance upon you than you have upon your slave. I (then) said: I would never beat my servant in future.

Imam Maalik said:

الأمر عندنا في الرجل يغتصب المرأة بكراً كانت أو ثيبا : أنها إن كانت حرة : فعليه صداق مثلها , وإن كانت أمَة : فعليه ما نقص من ثمنها ، والعقوبة في ذلك على المغتصب ، ولا عقوبة على المغتصبة في ذلك كله

In our view the man who rapes a woman, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a "dowry" like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case. (Imam Maalik, Al-Muwatta', Volume 2, page 734)


Imam Al Shaafi'i said:

وإذا اغتصب الرجل الجارية ثم وطئها بعد الغصب وهو من غير أهل الجهالة أخذت منه الجارية والعقر وأقيم عليه حد الزنا

"If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse." (Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaabul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)




In conclusion, It is well known that Islaam was a strong weapon against slavery. There are numerous narrations about setting slaves free, an act which is praised by Allah and his Messenger.

Also, the owner of a slave has to sit and share his meal with the slave. In no way he is allowed to humiliate, harm or overburden the slave. It would be hideous to say Islam allows raping the slave. In my opinion, only a person who defines rape as NOT harmful may attribute this act and phrasing to the teachings of Islaam.

[Dreamer]

I'm talking about the revelations, when rules and ordinances regarding whether slaves should be married and whether the women in the hadith you cited had living husbands when that situation happened.


You aren't getting off the hook that easily; your avoidance about this demonstrates the faultiness of your claims.

This is what happens when you don't actually do your own research and rely on internet sites.

oh dude Ill deal with you in a while I will show u clearly how sex with slaves is allowed and i wont let you squirm your way out of it by deflecting from what is there by trading insults

[Dreamer]

Dreamer, If I am not mistaken, I though you were a Shi'a defending Tashayyu more than once. Although it is a while ago.

Please read the following narration:

Book 015, Number 4082:

Hilal b. Yasaf reported that a person got angry and slapped his slave-girl. Thereupon Suwaid b. Muqarrin said to him: You could find no other part (to slap) but the prominent part of her face. See I was one of the seven sons of Muqarrin, and we had but only one slave-girl. The youngest of us slapped her, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded us to set her free.


They slapped the slave girl, and the Prophet sallalahu aleyhi wasallam commanded them to set a free. Compare slapping with raping. What would be the hukm if they or one of them raped her by force?

Abu Mas'ud al-Badri reported: "I was beating my slave with a whip when I heard a voice behind me: Understand, Abu Masud; but I did not recognise the voice due to intense anger. He (Abu Mas'ud) reported: As he came near me (I found) that he was the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he was saying: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; bear in mind. Abu Mas'ud. He (Aba Maslad) said: threw the whip from my hand. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; verily Allah has more dominance upon you than you have upon your slave. I (then) said: I would never beat my servant in future.

Imam Maalik said:

الأمر عندنا في الرجل يغتصب المرأة بكراً كانت أو ثيبا : أنها إن كانت حرة : فعليه صداق مثلها , وإن كانت أمَة : فعليه ما نقص من ثمنها ، والعقوبة في ذلك على المغتصب ، ولا عقوبة على المغتصبة في ذلك كله

In our view the man who rapes a woman, regardless of whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a "dowry" like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case. (Imam Maalik, Al-Muwatta', Volume 2, page 734)


Imam Al Shaafi'i said:

وإذا اغتصب الرجل الجارية ثم وطئها بعد الغصب وهو من غير أهل الجهالة أخذت منه الجارية والعقر وأقيم عليه حد الزنا

"If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse." (Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaabul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)




In conclusion, It is well known that Islaam was a strong weapon against slavery. There are numerous narrations about setting slaves free, an act which is praised by Allah and his Messenger.

Also, the owner of a slave has to sit and share his meal with the slave. In no way he is allowed to humiliate, harm or overburden the slave. It would be hideous to say Islam allows raping the slave. In my opinion, only a person who defines rape as NOT harmful may attribute this act and phrasing to the teachings of Islaam.

The statements are about when someone else rapes a slave girl... not the owner... as stated earlier a slave is a property in islam... the master may do as they please but not other people... see how the punishment is only a fine in the reduction of her VALUE... she is seen as chattell... not as a human being with the dignity that entails... perhaps you would like to quote the 4 madhabs on their stance on sex with slaves??? I will do so in a while... as for the shia thing... your correct that was a LONG time ago... views change... especially as one sees the truth
and as for the statement of imam shafi of taking a slave away from a owner who rapes her.. he clearly states if he aquires her by force... thus showing that he did not purchase her... or he raped another persons slave... islam is SOOOO into property rights

[RevolutionThroughReason]

oh dude Ill deal with you in a while I will show u clearly how sex with slaves is allowed and i wont let you squirm your way out of it by deflecting from what is there by trading insults

You've been squirming this whole time sir. And throwing out guesses without any actual contextual foundation. I'll be waiting to shoot holes in your claims.

[Dreamer]

You've been squirming this whole time sir. And throwing out guesses without any actual contextual foundation. I'll be waiting to shoot holes in your claims.

I wont hold my breath... stop projecting your own actions on others... read your "holy" book

[Dreamer]

The sad reality is that the madhabs allow it, the quran allows it, the hadith speak of it... yet you seem to think your intellect is more and say its not allowed... I find that highly amusing but typical of a person who is 1) not fully aware of all that his / her religion teaches and 2)someone who cherry picks their religion...

[Al Hanif]

such noble and illustrious companions a high benchmark for family values

I don't know if having sex with a slave is allowed in Islam since I have a life and not so much time to spend on studying this subject.

What I do know however is that the Abraham of the Bible had sex with Agar his "slave".

And that the Solomon of the Bible had over 900 concubines.

The whole Judeo-Christian civilization is based on the Bible.

Since all Abrahamic religions endorse this narrative, it is indeed a benchmark for family values.

Either way, if the Abrahamic religions are false as you claim, then there is no right or wrong. Therefore your judgment on this subject is null and irrelevant since right and wrong don't exist.

[Dreamer]

I don't know if having sex with a slave is allowed in Islam since I have a life and not so much time to spend on studying this subject.

What I do know however is that the Abraham of the Bible had sex with Agar his "slave".

And that the Solomon of the Bible had over 900 concubines.

The whole Judeo-Christian civilization is based on the Bible.

Since all Abrahamic religions endorse this narrative, it is indeed a benchmark for family values.

Either way, if the Abrahamic religions are false as you claim, then there is no right or wrong. Therefore your judgment on this subject is null and irrelevant since right and wrong don't exist.

yea and to a large extent one may say islam ripped off the previous religions and added in a few social arab customs... I am against slavery full stop regardless of which tradition... you yourself clearly stated your God allows you to rape women who are defeated... are you backtracking? sick family values btw oh and you should study it since it is your religion... will teach you how disgusting an act it is... it will open your eyes
The bible says a lot of things ---- a lot of wacky things... god sends a bear to kill children for example according to it for playing a prank on a patriarch

[Al Hanif]

yea and to a large extent one may say islam ripped off the previous religions and added in a few social arab customs... I am against slavery full stop regardless of which tradition... you yourself clearly stated your God allows you to rape women who are defeated... are you backtracking? sick family values btw oh and you should study it since it is your religion... will teach you how disgusting an act it is... it will open your eyes
The bible says a lot of things ---- a lot of wacky things... god sends a bear to kill children for example according to it for playing a prank on a patriarch

Why would something be wrong since God doesn't exist ?

We are all particles interacting with each other. There is no right and wrong.

[Dreamer]

Why would something be wrong since God doesn't exist ?

We are all particles interacting with each other. There is no right and wrong.

who said I didnt believe in God??? now your assuming things ... islam does not have a monopoly on God or a deity
as for morals... deal with issues of rape and women rights than talk

[Al Hanif]

who said I didnt believe in God??? now your assuming things ... islam does not have a monopoly on God or a deity
as for morals... deal with issues of rape and women rights than talk

So you believe in God and you have no problem with a God who allows rape to happen in his creation ?

That proves you're an hypocrite.

[Al Hanif]

You can't even counter the arguments of RTR let alone my arguments.

What would it be against the arguments of a billion of muslims ?

And you think you'll stand a chance against Allah's arguments in the Day of Judgment ?

[Dreamer]

So you believe in God and you have no problem with a God who allows rape to happen in his creation ?

That proves you're an hypocrite.

no... I dont believe in your idea of God... what your idea of what God says is sick.... other religions will say God says xyz... your religion says ABC... who said your statement is truth? you need help buddy with your rape fantasy

[Dreamer]

You can't even counter the arguments of RTR let alone my arguments.

What would it be against the arguments of a billion of muslims ?

And you think you'll stand a chance against Allah's arguments in the Day of Judgment ?

I did counter his arguments... you and he have opposing views... you believe in rape... he doesnt... the madhabs allow for sex with slaves... he doesnt... sort your messed warped beliefs out