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  • #136
    oh and dont go off on a tangent by questioning other peoples intellect ... it just seems low... stick to the points at hand
    Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


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    • #137
      I'm not going on a tangent, the fact you have difficulty comprehending why you're wrong about something demonstrates you have some inability to understand things logically and thereby suffering from poor intellect. It's not like I'm just hurling insults at you w/o addressing your claims.
      [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

      2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

      Comment

      • #138
        Originally posted by Dreamer View Post
        dude you assume a lot.. I can assure you I have not read said site.. a lot of what is on there is fairly stupid but they make a few good points... please enlighten us as to what that term means and why these people are not grouped together with marriage as in why are they differentiated from wives
        Gee the guy who ignores relevant verses and hadith is saying others assume a lot. That's funny because you brought up "Ma malakat aymankum" as if you came upon startling new insight that no one else ever heard about until you arrived. LOL

        I just explained what the term meant, what does the term have to do with the stipulations on sexual relations?

        Well nothing, it doesn't matter why they're differentiated from wives, that's a red herring, what matters is if Qur'an actually stipulates that you can't gain sexual access to them against their will or without proper relations established. The language of the Qur'an is a unique one, its idioms are unique too. That's why The Qur'an addresses issues over the expanse of the Qur'an and not just in one straight statement.
        Last edited by RevolutionThroughReason; 03-14-2014, 08:00 AM.
        [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

        2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

        Comment

        • #139
          Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
          I'm not going on a tangent, the fact you have difficulty comprehending why you're wrong about something demonstrates you have some inability to understand things logically and thereby suffering from poor intellect. It's not like I'm just hurling insults at you w/o addressing your claims.
          please address the point at hand
          Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


          Comment

          • #140
            "And (also forbidden are) all married women EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS (this is) Allah's ordinance to you,
            and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication.
            Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise." verse 24 of sura nisa... here you can clearly see as highlighted in bold all married women are forbidden (aside from incest relations which are covered elsewhere) but slaves are allowed- married or not!
            Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


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            • #141
              And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” SURA NISA 4:3
              here it allows relations with slaves... clearly you lack the ability to read up on a term ... you deflect others by trading in petty insults
              Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


              Comment

              • #142
                had they needed a nikkah they would not need to be separated from the free women ... they are as it turns out merely chattell...
                Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


                Comment

                • #143
                  Originally posted by Dreamer View Post
                  please address the point at hand
                  That was the point at hand in that post. Just because I supplement commentary on your intellect with my responses, Doesn't take away that I'm addressing your claims.
                  [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                  2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                  Comment

                  • #144
                    Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                    That was the point at hand in that post. Just because I supplement commentary on your intellect with my responses, Doesn't take away that I'm addressing your claims.
                    you are not and since you cant or dont want to.. Ive given a few verses which show the allowance of having sex with slaves
                    Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


                    Comment

                    • #145
                      Originally posted by Dreamer View Post
                      And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” SURA NISA 4:3
                      here it allows relations with slaves... clearly you lack the ability to read up on a term ... you deflect others by trading in petty insults

                      This verse talks about marriage and says marriage with slaves

                      see "or slaves your right hand possess"
                      [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                      2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                      Comment

                      • #146
                        if you like I can direct you to sunni and or shia sources which also allow this
                        Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


                        Comment

                        • #147
                          Originally posted by Dreamer View Post
                          had they needed a nikkah they would not need to be separated from the free women ... they are as it turns out merely chattell...


                          This is simply your assumption; not a claim in the Qur'an. We judge the Qur'an by the Qur'an's terms, not yours.
                          [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                          2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                          Comment

                          • #148
                            Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                            This verse talks about marriage and says marriage with slaves

                            see "or slaves your right hand possess"
                            LMAO... no it doesnt!!!!!!! please read carefully.... it says marry but if you cant have sex with women... it counts up to 4 wives and mentions unlimited slaves!

                            Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (Quran 4:. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
                            Sahih Muslim 8:3432

                            Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: I have a slave-girl who is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practise 'azl, if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed for her would come to her.
                            Sahih Muslim 8:338


                            where is marriage stated here?
                            Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


                            Comment

                            • #149
                              Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                              This is simply your assumption; not a claim in the Qur'an. We judge the Qur'an by the Qur'an's terms, not yours.
                              fair enough... read some hadith again showing the practice of having sex with slaves outside of nikkah
                              Frater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis


                              Comment

                              • #150
                                Originally posted by Dreamer View Post
                                if you like I can direct you to sunni and or shia sources which also allow this
                                the point is can you direct me to the actual source material that allows this?

                                so far, "no". ...
                                [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                                2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                                Comment

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