Islam and Women

[Al Hanif]

Well,

[Dila Teer Bija]

I agree with some of the things you said.

But it seems like there some countries that hate women, like Sa'udi Arabia where women cannot drive and Iran where women have to wear hijab.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You're making a logical fallacy about correlation vs. causation.

[Al Hanif]

Sorry,

[Dreamer]

People have affairs and the same things go on in even the most conservative of places.... It's just that it's kept behind closed doors

[Dreamer]

Also note about your statement that men and women can't control themselves in the west... One might say that muslim men can't control themselves hence the allowance in scripture for them to have four wives and numerous concubines/sex slaves who unlike people in the west wouldn't even have a choice in the matter of not having sex since they are considered property devoid of human choice

[Dreamer]

Interesting though that women while allowed to own slaves (be they male slaves) these slaves can not "service" her in the same manner as they would a man... Also a male slave would have access to be with the female owner at all times ... But seeing as they are viewed as property out goes the men and women not mixing rule

[Khostai]

But the Afghan model is not fair to the women. Becuase of this women only live half a life, they don't reach there true potential, only God knows how many young women who had brain capacity to solve energy problems, cure cancer or know how to establish good economic system went to waste.

I really think that muslim countries would be so much better if they let the other half of there population, here the women more freedom to get education and get the same opportunities as the men. Becuase what I have noticed about muslims and Asian women, is that they are more assertief and energetic than Europeans, they combine work and family just fine without that much naging, like the Europeans women do, and when they get a chance they really go for the highest goal, but they are alwasy get opressed in some way or another....

[DaZahroJaam.]

What in the bloody hell is this thread about?? I am so confused.

[Badlun]

What are the consequences of boy friend-girl friend relationship? If there were some grave consequences then the West would be now Africa or Afghanistan and vice versa would be the developed West.

One practical solution is to declare Zina only Zina bil jabar(rape) while any sexual relationship with mutual consent to be a legitimate relationship like a marriage. Muta marriage is something like this.

Yes indeed one should always take care of sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancy. These measures should also be taken in a conventional marriage relationship.

If you take these precautionary measures then sex with marriage or without marriage is not a big deal. Actually marriage is mutual consent for sex and a partnership based on love and emotions.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Badlun, how would something like that be compatible with Pashtunwali values?

[Badlun]

Badlun, how would something like that be compatible with Pashtunwali values?

Pashtunwali is misunderstood. It is not a legal or religious code. It is a set of few cultural and social unwritten and flexible conventions, traditions, values and mores. No where it is written that a Pashtun man and woman have to marry . In Pashtunwali there is no marriage ceremony or a practice of wed locking or Nikah.

Pashtuns before their conversion to Islam might be observing some other secular or civil procedures of match making or forming families.

Thus boy-girl friend relation is neither sanctioned by Pashtunwali nor it is forbidden. This is beyond the scope of Pashtunwali. Yes once you declare a girl to be your wife or girl friend then the usual jealousy, envy, love, bond etc as human instinct is endorsed by Pashtunwali in the form of honor.

[DaZahroJaam.]

badlun, as they say, one ought to keep an open mind about matters but not so much that their brains fall off. you have a habit of applying the glass to the water instead of the other way around which makes a great deal of difference. right and wrong doesn't begin or end at your personal convenience.

i can assure you that if you had an opportunity to live life the 'correct' way as you describe it, you will end up despising it in a very short period of time.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Badlun, Then how did marriage come to exist amongst Pashtuns?

[Badlun]

Then how did marriage come to exist amongst Pashtuns?

As I said earlier, after their conversion to Islam. Religion is always keen in marriages, divorces, family etc.

Research is needed on the issue that how non-religious or irreligious or atheist or secular or nomadic people would tie themselves in a bond of wife-husband kind of relationship.