Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Its not what I have said! Its in the Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W), according to which Dajjal will be a Human being with extraordinary powers (warlock), he is also mentioned as Anti Christ and Lucifer in Christian chronicles. In short whatever it is, Its not a myth as the event has been explicitly narrated by the Prophet himself and having faith in the prophet entails having faith in his prophecies. Whether its a giant monster or a normal human being the good news is he will be killed by Jesus (P.B.U,H)! :D

Do you think that Hadhrat Isa (as) will kill ALL pigs?
Do you think that Hadhrat Isa (as) will break ALL the crosses?

Do you think that Hadhrat Isa (as) will kill a someone who has not waged a war against him?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Malalay sister, I am still waiting for you to post ALL of the other translation that you so conveniently left off. I will not disrespect you by posting it myself, but if you don't in the next 10 mins, I will post them ALL myself.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Saif wrora Jana,

please answer this as it is part of the discussion.

If you are going to translate "tawaffa" as going up then how could he ever come down? He will tell Allah that he did not know what happened after. Hence, either way, he will not come back down.

So, might want to reconsider your translation?

[malalay]

Do you think that Hadhrat Isa (as) will kill ALL pigs?
Do you think that Hadhrat Isa (as) will break ALL the crosses?

Do you think that Hadhrat Isa (as) will kill a someone who has waged a war against him?

Do I think?! I BELIEVE in what my Beloved Prophet (P.B.U.H) has prophecised..This argument is lame..All your points are weightless..i think we shouldnt waste our time and energy with you cause you just dont want to understand Brother!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Do I think?! I BELIEVE in what my Beloved Prophet (P.B.U.H) has prophecised..This argument is lame..All your points are weightless..i think we shouldnt waste our time and energy with you cause you just dont want to understand Brother!

Sister don't lose patience so quickly. Religion is not an easy walk in the park.

Do you think that Allah will keep someone in the sky for over 2000 years so that he could kill pigs? So that he could break crosses?

Any human being could do that? Why would Allah keep someone for so long to do this lame task?

What do you think our beloved Prophet (saw) is referring to?

[malalay]

Malalay sister, I am still waiting for you to post ALL of the other translation that you so conveniently left off. I will not disrespect you by posting it myself, but if you don't in the next 10 mins, I will post them ALL myself.

Well you have already disrespected our Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) in ur previous posts, who am I infront of Him!!..Go on Brother!!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Malalay khore, I gave you 20 mins. I will post, myself, all the different translation that you so convenient left off. You committed intellectual dishonesty just because the other translations were against your stance. Not a good thing to do.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Well you have already disrespected our Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) in ur previous posts, who am I infront of Him!!..Go on Brother!!

How did I respect our beloved Prophet (saw)?

I am glad you are giving me the green light to post all the different translation that you purposely left off. I was hoping that you would have done it yourself. It would have given you more credibility. You come across as someone who is deceiving, unfortunately.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلاَّ مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ

The different possible translations for this verse, including a literal translation.

LINK Search for 5:117 and then click the link provided on 5:117



Literal

'I did not say to them except what You ordered/commanded me with it, that worship God, my Lord and your Lord, and I was on them a witness as long as I continued/lasted in (between) them, so when You made me die, You were the guard on them, and you (are) on every thing (an) honest witness.'

Yusuf Ali

"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

Pickthal

I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

Arberry

I only said to them what Thou didst command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when Thou didst take me to Thyself, Thou wast Thyself the watcher over them; Thou Thyself art witness of everything.

Shakir

I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.

Sarwar

I did not tell them anything except what You commanded me to tell them. I told them that they must worship God who is everyone's Lord. I watched them as long as I was among them until You raised me to Yourself and You Yourself had also watched over them; You are Omnipresent.

H/K/Saheeh

I said not to them except what You commanded me to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.

Malik

I never said anything other than what You commanded me to say, that is to worship Allah, Who is my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them; but when You called me off, You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to everything.

Maulana Ali

I said to them naught save as Thou didst command me: Serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord; and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die Thou wast the Watcher over them. And Thou art Witness of all things.

Free Minds

"I only said to them what You commanded me to say, that you shall serve God my Lord and your Lord; and I was witness over them as long as I was with them, but when You took me, You were watcher over them. You are witness over all things."

Qaribullah

I spoke to them of nothing except that which You ordered me, that you worship Allah, my Lord and our Lord. I witnessed them whilst living in their midst and ever since You took me to You, You have been the Watcher over them. You are the Witness of everything.

George Sale

I have not spoken to them any other than what Thou didst command me; namely, worship God, my Lord and your Lord: And I was a witness of their actions while I staid among them; but since thou hast taken me to thy self, Thou hast been the watcher over them; for Thou art witness of all things.

Asad

Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid me [to say]: `Worship God, [who is] my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.' And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper:'

Khalifa

"I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.

Hilali/Khan

"Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world).

QXP Shabbir Ahemd

"Never did I say to them except what You Commanded me to say, 'Worship and obey Allah my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness to them as long as I lived among them. After You caused me to die, You were the Watcher over them and You are Witness over all things and events."

Sher Ali

“I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

The question is: why are there two different stances on this issue?

1. One that Hadhrat Isa (as) is taken up
2. The other that he is literally dead?

Or is there really one stance, that some are literally translating the verse and the others are translating the verse as per the usage of the word in the Arabic language.


If paid close attention, both of these translation give the meaning of death.

That is why I want to discuss with you, Saif ul Haq, or anyone else, what could this verse possible mean, what is the message that is being conveyed here by Allah?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear brother, did you know that this is the exact same reason why Hadhrat Isa (as) was rejected by the Jews?

Did you know that the Jews believe that Hadhrat Elias (as) is in the Heavens and will return. They rejected Hadhrat Isa (as) on the fact that Hadhrat Isa (as) has not returned?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Those hadith that you are referring to are correct. I don't deny them, however, the are not literal.

Dearest and most beloved brother,

how would you convince a Jew that Hadrhat Isa (as) was their Messiah?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What do you mean, I don't quite understand your question?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Oh ok!

The hadith is correct, no doubt, whatsoever.

However, if Hadhrat Isa (as) is declared dead by the Quran, then we must look at those ahadith metaphorically. What other choice do we have, dearest Aseer jaan?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If he is declared dead in the Quran, then text of the hadith has to be looked upon metaphorically.

This is why I brought up the parallel issue of the Jews and Hadhrat Isa (as).

Dear brother, did you know that this is the exact same reason why Hadhrat Isa (as) was rejected by the Jews?

Did you know that the Jews believe that Hadhrat Elias (as) is in the Heavens and will return. They rejected Hadhrat Isa (as) on the fact that Hadhrat Isa (as) has not returned?