Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[inqilab]

Your seeing things. And muhammad asad was a mutazilah. His translations are wrong.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You are either mocking the Quran or you have a blind faith and this verse slammed the door in your face and you have nothing else to say except: " you are seeing thing."

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

So, we have to follow your translation? You just proved that you are following your own sect, and you don't care for research.

Post your translation of those verses, then.

[inqilab]

[5:117] Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid me [to say]: `Worship God, [who is] my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.' And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper:'

First of all this is not even the ayah from 5:117. This is the actual ayah:

مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلَّا مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۚ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ ۖ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَأَنتَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.

So once again. You munafiq. You have lied against islam. There is no mention of death in the ayah.

I pray that Allah brings you back to Islam or burns you in hell forever.

[inqilab]

I will ignore you and your lying. And i will continue on with my thread.

Allah protect us from a lying munafiq like you.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

First of all this is not even the ayah from 5:117. This is the actual ayah:

مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلَّا مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۚ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ ۖ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَأَنتَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.

Are you sure tawaffa means what you have just stated? Would you like to reconsider that? If not, then I will post my reply.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I will ignore you and your lying. And i will continue on with my thread.

Allah protect us from a lying munafiq like you.

If you stick to this topic then we will see whether your words are for me or for yourself.

I will wait for your reply to this: http://www.pashtunforums.com/89598-post21.html

[inqilab]

Where is the Grave of Jesus?
Question for Ahmadis!!

Dear Qadiani/Ahmadi Readers!

Peace be on those who follow the hidayah

Mirza Gulam Ahmad Qadiani, the founder of Ahmadiyya Movement claimed:

"God has revealved to me in his special inspiration that Maseeh ibne Maryam is dead." (Tauzeeh-e-Maram, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.402)
"I have been informed about the grave of Eisa (in Kashmir). And I have been informed by Holy Quran and God's Revelation to me about the Death of Jesus." (Roohani Khazain vol 18 p.358, 361)


Is this the tomb of Jesus?

"Tomb of Christ" (7/24) At the very center of Christianity, a mystery as old as the Christian faith is closer to being solved. An archaeological team from Oxford University has been hard at work attempting to prove that Jerusalem's Church of the Holy Sepulchre is the actual location of Christ's burial. After a decade, Martin Biddle and his wife, Birthe KjØlbye-Biddle, have unearthed the remains of earlier structures on the site and an original rock-cut tomb hidden within the walls of the present 19th-century edicule, or "little house." Believed to mark the site of Christ's tomb, the edicule has never, until now, been subject to any form of archaeological study or scientific investigation.
PBS Previews


What would you say to this?
Or is the Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir?

Another website called 'Tomb of Jesus' goes to extreme length to prove that Tomb of Jesus is in Kashmir. Although the owner of website (Tombmaster) denies that he belong to any religious group, but soon the cat comes out of the bag when the owner of this website confesses on Ahmadi forums that he is Ahmadi and is very close to Mirza Tahir, the Qadiani Khalifa. He writes:

"After surviving the crucifixion, Jesus Christ arrived in Kashmir, where he took up residence for the remainder of his life. There he ministered to Israelite tribes of the area, continuing to preach. He eventually married a woman named Maryan, who bore him children, and, so the theory states, he died at the age of 120 years. His tomb [see picture of his tomb on our home page] is located in the Mohala Kan Yar district of the capital city of Srinagar, Jammu & Kashmir, Northern India, and is called the Roza Bal ("The Site of the Honored Tomb")."
(http://www.tombofjesus.com/Welcomeall.htm)

Tombmaster further adds:

"This site, and the information it contains, is NOT the property of any particular belief or ism or organization, nor is the idea of a post-crucifixion life of Jesus the invention of any ONE individual."
(http://www.tombofjesus.com/Welcomeall.htm)



But he confessed in other places his religious affliation:

"It is SHAMEFUL that a man who claims to have been BORN an Ahmadi DOES NOT see the significance of Imam Mahdi! If that's what it means to be born an Ahmadi, THEN I AM GLAD that I was not born one, and that I converted LATER!!" (source: posting of 9/9/2000 on Lahore Ahmadiyya Message Board)

"Because I just happen to believe like the Ahmadis believe: That Hazrat Ahmad was a *true* prophet of God who cannot be placed in such categories." (source: posting of 02/11/2000 on Lahore Ahmadiyya Message Board)



"Let us "suppose" that I am a black Ahmadiyya. What the HELL do I CARE what some Punjabi Pakistan feels about me? I created my website, for instance, WITHOUT their help OR permission. And the Ahmadiyyan leader (or so I hear) has lent his personal approval to the website." (source= posting of 6/6/2000 on Lahore Ahmadiyya Message Board)

Now the cat is out of the bag. Anyway....

All Qadiani followers (Lahori as well as Qadianis) believe that Jesus Christ (Hazrat Eisa Ibne Maryam AS) died and buried in Kashmir. What is the basis for this belief? Of course, because your founder, your prophet, your promised messiah, your imam mahdi etc. etc. Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani, said so. Am I right?

Tombmaster says:

"The significance of Hazrat Ahmad is very clear, and is also admitted by anybody who reads about and understands the history of the theory of a post-crucifixion life of Jesus: Hazrat Ahmad is the recognized *first* person who presented a coherent and unified exposition of this theory. Every Jesus-in-India writer recognizes this. He uncovered the works of Mulla Nadri and others; he used his powerful spiritual AND rational gifts, collecting information from Muslim, Hindu, Buddhists and other sources, including medical books of history, oral history, written history, etc., and he pulled this all together in book form and in a coherent manner. *Nobody* in human history had done that before him. This is why he is entitled to be recognized as that person who the Prophet Muhammad stated would "break the cross.""
(source: posting of 9/9/2000 on Lahore Ahmadiyya Message Board)

Has any Qadiani ever analysed the writings of Mirza Ghulam, to know what exactly he had written about the site of burial of Jesus? I am sure none of you had done that, and if you have then they are all accessory to a massive deception campaign, or else delibrately avoiding to face the truth.

Now let me tell you what I discovered in the writings of Mirza Ghulam. You are of course free to agree or disagree with me, but please, please, only after you have verified the quotes that I have given. My task is nothing but to convey the message, after that it is between you and Allah.

In his various books, Mirza Ghulam A. Qadiani, had given three different locations for the Grave of Jesus. Which one is correct?

1. Jesus AS buried in Al-Khaleeli (Gulailee).

In 1891 Mirza wrote a huge volume, Izala Auham, which ran upto 948 pages. In the second volume of this book, he wrote a detailed, mind boggling explanation trying to prove that Jesus was not taken physically to heavens (as the Muslims believe), but that he was taken down from the cross, went to his native place, Al-Khalil, died and buried there. He writes:

"This is true that Maseeh went to his native place, and died there, but this is not true that the same body which was buried, became alive again..... verse 3 chapter I of Acts is a testimony about the natural death of Jesus that took place in Al-Khaleeli. After this death, Maseeh was visible to his students as KASHF (vision) for 40 days." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol.3 p.353-354)
1. Grave of Jesus in Quds

However, 3 years later, in 1894, Mirza changed his story. In his other book, Atmam-e-Hujjat (Roohani Khazain volume 8) he once again tried to prove that Eisa Ibne Maryam AS is dead. In an attempt to prove that, he gave the testimony of one of his rare Arab Disciple, Molvi Mohammed Al-Saeedi Trabilisi Al-Shaami. He wrote:

"This has to be admitted that Hazrat Eisa is also dead, and interestingly enough the grave of Hazrat Eisa is also in Syria and for further clarity, in the footnote, I include the testimony of My brother, My lover in Allah, Molvi Mohammad Al-Saeedi Trablisi. He is a resident of Tripoli, in the Country of Syria and in his area is the Grave of Hazrat Essa AS (Jesus). If you say that Grave is a fake, then you must provide the proof of this fake, and prove that when this fraud took place. And in this event we will not be sure about the graves of any prophet and trust will be lost, and we will have to say that all those burial places are fake." (Atmam E Hujat, Page: 18-19, Roohani Khazain vol.8 p.296-297, dated 1894)

Letter of Molvi Mohammed Al-Saeedi Trabilisi:

"O Hazrat Maulana & My Imam. Assalamo alaikum wa rehmatullah wa barakaatohu. I pray that may Allah give you cure (I recieved this letter of Shaami Saheb during my illness) Whatever you have asked about the Grave of Eisa alaihe assalam and other events, thus I am writing to you in detail, and that is this: Hazrat Eisa alaih assalam was born in Bait-ul-Lehm and between Bait-ul-Lehm and Quds there is a distance of thirty miles and the Grave of Hazrat Eisa alaihe assalam is in the Country of Quds, and is present till now, and there is a Church built on it, and that church is the largest church of all churches, and inside it is the Grave of Hazrat Eisa and in the same church is the Grave of Maryam, the truthful. And both graves are separate." (Atmam-ul-Hujjat, Roohani Khazain vol.8 p.299)

That seems to settle the matter. As far as Mirza Saheb was concerned, Jesus was dead and his grave was in al-Quds.

1. Jesus' Grave in Kashmir: However 8 years later, Mirza changed the story once again. Now he started propagating his new theory: Jesus is buried in Kashmir.


"It is proved with certianity that Essa AS (Jesus) migrated to Kashmir. After this Allah liberated him with his blessing and he kept on living there for a long time until he died and was included among the deads. And his burial place is still in the city of Srinagar (Tomb of Yus Asif)" (Al-Huda, 12 June 1902, Page 109)

"I have been informed about the grave of Eisa (in Kashmir)." (Roohani Khazain vol 18 p.358, 361)

"The grave of Jesus is in Kashmir." (Roohani Khazain vol 18 p. 320, Nuzool-e-Maseeh, printed in 1909, after the death of Mirza)

So now we have three different statements of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani regarding the grave of Jesus. My question to Qadianis is which is the correct one? Al-Khalil or Quds or Kashmir?

Wassalam on those who follow the hidayah

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Inqilab, take one step at a time. Answer this post first.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/89598-post21.html

[inqilab]

Qadiani the Liar Exposing Himself

Dear Qadiani/Ahmadi Friends!

Is it not your faith that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani is a truthful person? .... of course it is.

Is it not your faith that Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani is the Imam Mahdi whose advent was foretold by Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW? .... of course it is.

Is it not your faith that Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani's are free of lies and contradictions? .... of course it is.

Do you not have faith in the following writings of Mirza Ghulam?

"The writings of a truthful, intelligent and clear-hearted person never contains contradictions. Yes if someone is mental and lunatic or is such a hypocrite that just to flatter he agrees thoughtlessly, his writings would without doubt become contradictory." (Sat Bachan, Roohani Khazain vol.10, p.142)

"Any wise and mentally normal person will never contain such two different beliefs." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol.3 p.220)

"The writings of a Liar will definitely contain contradictions." (Zamima Braheen Ahmadiyya part 5, Roohani Khazain vol.21 p.275)

Dear Qadiani/Ahmadi Friends!
Surely you have faith in all the above things. Now we give you a chance to prove how much faith you have on Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani and to prove whether you are on the right path or not. Or is it that you have been taken for a ride? Read the following quotations of Mirza Sahib carefully, read above and below, right and left of them, and make sure that nothing has been taken out of context.

"And the reason for the name 'Mahdi' as has been narrated, is this that he will not take knowledge from scholars and will get guidance from God, just as the way God had given guidance to his Prophet Muhammad SAAW, he had taken knowledge and guidance from God only." (Najm-ul-Huda, Roohani Khazain vol.14 p.90)

"Thus, the coming person was named Mahdi, and there is this hint in it that that coming person will get religious knowledge from God, and will not be a student of any teacher in Quran and Hadith. Thus I say it on OATH that this state is my state. No one can prove that I have studied even a chapter of Quran or Hadith or Tafseer from any human or have been a student of any Mufassir (Commentator of Quran) or Muhaddith (Expert of Hadith). Thus this the Mahdi-hood which I have attained on the pattern of Muhammadi prophethood." (Ayam-us-Sulh, Roohani Khazain vol.14 p.394)

But on the other hand, he said:

"In childhood, my education was done in this manner that when I was 6,7 years old, a persian-speaking teacher was appointed for me who taught me Holy Quran and some persian books and the name of this teacher was Fazal Ilahi. And when my age was about 10 years, then an Arabic teacher was appointed for my education whose name was Fazal Ahmad ... when I reached 17 or 18 years of age, I had the opportunity of recieving education from another Molvi Sahib, his name was Gul Ali Shah." (Kitab ul Bariyah, Roohani Khazain vol.13 p.180-181)

"I do not claim that I am that Mahdi who is according to (words of Hadith) 'from the son of Fatima and from my progeny' etc." (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya V, Roohani Khazain vol.21 p.356)

"We admit this that several Mahdis may have come before and possibly will come in future as well and probably someone by the name of Imam Muhammad may also appear." (Roohani Khazain vol.3 p.379)

Dear Qadiani/Ahmadi friends!! Does these writings not prove the lies and contradictions of Mirza Ghulam? Can a Liar be Imam Mahdi AS? Would you still insist that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani Sahib is Imam Mahdi?


Wa maa alainaa ill- alBalaagh
Wassalamun 'ala mun ittaba alHuda

[inqilab]

I do not answer lying munafiqs.

i will continue this later on inshAllah. Enough to read for now.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

It is not that you "do not answer" it is that you cannot answer.

It clear that you only copy and paste and have no clue what you are saying.

[inqilab]

Ahmadis in Israel- Ordering the Killing of Daughters!
Special Correspondent in Kababeer
Dr. A. M. Odeh

Kababeer, a small town on Mount Karmel in Haifa, Occupied Palestine in Israel, is the center of Ahmadiyya activities inside Israel. Established in 1928, 99% of the residents of this town belong to Ahmadiyya creed, whose ancestor, Mr. Abdul Qadir Odeh, was the first Palestinian to embrace Ahmadiyyat at the hand of an Ahmadiyya Missionary from India, Jalaluddin Shams, under the false impression that Mirza Ghulam is a reformer and a Mujaddid in Islam. Little did he know at the time that this reformer in Islam, had later claimed to have become a Promised Messiah and Prophet in his own right. Some 2000 members of this community belong to more or less to the same family. In recent years the numbers have been dwindling and currently they are estimated to be only around 850 Qadianis in Palestine.

Qadiani Community occupies a special place in the Israeli/Western clandestine world. They have played a significant role as spies during and the 1st and 2nd world wars in the Middle Eastern Region. Full extent of their activities can be read from the articles under the heading of "Ahmadiyya Movement - British Jewish Connection" on my web site.

It is worth remembering that Kababeer is strategically located on Mount Karmel, overlooking the Athleeth Harbour and it Naval Base and Ordinance factory on one side and the Haifa Harbour on the other. 99% population of this town is Palestinian Arab belonging to Qadiani community. Zionists have known to displace/eleminate Palestinians from areas of much less importance. The village of Dier Yaseen was wiped from the face of earth, killing all its inhabitants. (Crossroads to Israel by Christopher Sykes, Promise and Fulfilment by Arthur Koestler, The Other Exodus by Erskine Childerns) and yet the same Zionists continue to tolerate Qadianis residence at such an important place for obvious reasons. Jama'at Ahmadiyya publishes its arabic propaganda literature by the name of AlBushra, from this place for distribution among the Arab World.

Even today Ahmadis play significant role in the Israeli administration. By taking advantage of their Palestinian origin, their muslim-sounding names and by the ignorance of people about the true nature of Ahmadiyya Movement, they play the role of fifth columnists among the Palestinian muslims, protecting the interest of their Masters. For instance:

Musa Sarwar: The Incharge of Passport and ID Card section in the Ministry of Interior.
Abdullah Asad: 'Raees Bait-ul-Tasaareekh' Incharge of the Dept which gives permission to build houses in Israel. No wonder Arab homes are every now and then being demolished. This man takes advantage of his Arab identity to inflitrate and perform his clandestine activities against arabs.
Ibrahim Asad: During 60s to 80s he was the Mossad agent in Germany but was deported when he was exposed. Now he is 'Mufattish Fanni' Inspector of Schools for Arabs. In this capacity he controls the kind of education and research is being done in Arab Colleges and Universities inside Israel. He never allows such research which can elevate the Palestinians inside Israel.
Jama'at Ahmadiyya has special links with the Zionist state. Ahmadiyya Headquarter play host to the Jewish Dignitaries from Israel. (Khatme Nabuwat Magazine Vol. 9. No. 5, P.8)
During the crackdown on Arabs inside Israel, as soon as the ID cards show the place of residence is Kababeer, soldiers allow the bearer of the card to go free, saying: Let him go. This is our man.
I (Dr. A Odeh) have been a born Ahmadi, an unfortunate event over which I had no control. I had been very active in various official capacities in the community - President Khuddamul Ahmadiyya, Member Majlis-e-Shoora, President of Stockholm Jamaat and finally President of Jamaat Ahmadiyya of Sweden, a post which I held till I denounced Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani and Ahmadiyyat in 1989. Fa AlHamdolillah 'ala zaalik. During my recent visit to Kababeer, I discovered some very startling things which I would like to share with my readers.
Like anywhere else in the Ahmadiyya Jamaat, the community in Israel is always controlled by the Missionary, who is usually a Punjabi Qadiani, usually bearing Indian Passport, since a Pakistani is not allowed in Israel. The post of Missionary or Mubasshir, as he is usually called, is a very lucrative one, giving a lot of material benefits. Missionary in Israel was not any different in that sense and this had created a lot of harsh feelings among the qadianis of Kababeer. The last Missionary, Mr Kauther Qadiani from India, made a lot of money in the name of collecting chanda for the new mosque. Ordinary qadianis grew resentful and tired of financial offerings to the Missionary in charge who was more interested in filling his pockets than doing tabsheer. They complained to the London headquarter and Mr Kauther was disgracefully removed in the summer of 1997.

These activities of Missioanries has resulted in the division of Jama'at into three factions in recent years:

True Ahmadis - who are with the Missionaries and thus with the London Leadership.
Ahmadies who are openly against Missionaries, but still respect the HQ.
Ahmadies who are least bothered about the present day Jamaat in London.
After the departure of Mr Kauther, a Palestinian, Mr. Falah Odeh, became a temporary Amir of the Israeli Jama'at. For a period of seven months, from June 1997 to Dec. 1997, there was no Missionary in Israel. In Dec 1997, a new young missionary, Mr. Baset Rasool Daar, arrived from India. He hailed from Kashmir and felt proud of his Jewish lineage, one of his parents being of Jewish descent.
Missionary order Qadianis to kill their daughters:
This new missionary who arrived at the end of 1997, was a young man, who speaks good English but knows only little Arabic. He had a uphill task of establishing the authority of Missionary-in-charge. Because of the dwindling population of Ahmadis, he
ordered all Ahmadis to fill in the Ba'ait form again. Palestinians in Isreal, Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis have been living a life where they were comfortably intermixing with Muslims, who are totally ignorant of the real beliefs of Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani. The younger generation is more open minded, and mixed marriages were not uncommon. Soon this new missioanry discovered that some of the girls belonging to the Qadiani families are either engaged or married to Muslims living in other areas.
One such person was M.A. Odeh who is the father of two grown up children. He is a born Qadiani, an Acamedician and a Contractor by profession. He had been a devout Ahmadi all his life and had previously taught at the Ahmadiyya School in Kababeer. His son is also a devoted Ahmadi and is close to the new missionary, Mr. Daar. When M.A. Odeh submitted the duly filled Ba'aith form for his family, Missionary refused to accept his Ba'aith form, until he forces his daughter to break the engagement with a Muslim. He asked the missionary what does he think of his son who is close to him. Missionary expressed his total satisfaction with the young ahmadi. M.A. then said that he gave the same upbringing to both his children, one chose to remain Ahmadi and the other chose to leave it. Missionary again asked him to force his daughter to break this engagement. When he expressed his inability to do that, to his utter dismay, missionary ordered him to kill his daughter. There was so much he can take. He started screaming at the missionary. The other person present tried to play down the whole issue by saying that the Missionary does not speak english well and perhaps there is some misunderstanding. But M.A., who himself speaks good English, said that Missionary speaks good English and there is no confusion what he is saying and that he wants me either to stop my daughter from getting married to a Muslim or kill her.

Another Ahmadi had a similar experience. M.M.Odeh is an iron monger by profession and lives beside the Ahmadiyya Mosque. He is a born Ahmadi with three grown up daughters. When he took his Ba'aith form, missionary refused to accept it until he force his daughter to break her engagement with a Muslim. When he expressed his inability to do that, Missionary ordered him to kill his daughter. M.M. could not believe his ears.

Similar incidents were reported with other Ahmadis whose daughters are engaged or married to Muslims. People are wondering what kind of a reformer/prophet Mirza was and what kind of Islam he is preaching? Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW put an end to the killing of daughters by the pagan Arabs and this so-called prophet's missionaries are asking them to kill their daughters!!!

While this controversy is continuing, a new, older Missionary, Mr. Mohammed Omar, has arrived from Qadian Indian, to contain the damage done by the militant approach of Mr. Baset Daar.

Dr. A.M. Odeh

[inqilab]

Ahmadis (Qadianis) Declare All Muslims as Kafirs

Ahmadiyya Jamaat and their followers today pretend to be the champions of Islam, claiming to have exemplary character. They go to extra length to advertise that Muslims have labelled them Kaafir whereas they are very peace-loving sect of Islam, who has never labelled anyone KAAFIR. They raise the slogan: LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE. However in real life all these claims fly in the face.

The founder of Ahmadiyya Movement, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, has this to say about the Muslims (non-Ahmadi Muslims)
"Except for the CHILDREN OF PROSTITUTE, whose hearts have been sealed by God, everyone else believes in me and has accepted me." (Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Roohani Khazain vol.5 p.547)

"God has revealed to me that anyone to whom my message has reached and he has not accepted me, he is not a muslim." (Letter of Mirza to Dr. Abdul Hakeem Khan Patialvi)

"I have God's inspiration that he who does not follow you and will not enter your Ba'ith and remain your opponent, he is disobedient of God and His Prophet, Hellish." (Advertisement in M'ayaar-ul-Akhyar by Mirza Ghulam p.8)

"Thus remember as God has informed me, it is forbidden and absolutely forbidden to pray behind any disbeliever and hesitant; but is should be that your imam should be one of you." (Arbaeen No 3, Roohani Khazain vol.17 p.417 footnote)

Some one asked a question and Mirza has replied to it. Both are mentioned in his book, Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi. I quote:

"Question: Huzoor-e-aali has mentioned in thousands of places that it is not at all right to call KAFIR a Kalima-go (one who recites a Kalima) and an Ahle-Qibla. It is quite obvious that except those Momineen who become Kafir by rejecting you, just by not accepting you no one becomes a Kafir. But you write to Abdul Hakeem Khan that anyone who has recieved my message and he has not accepted me, he is not muslim. There is contradiction between this statement and the statements in previous books. Earlier in Tiryaq-ul-Quloob etc you had mentioned that no one becomes Kafir by not accepting you and now you are writing that by rejecting me he becomes a Kafir.

Answer: This is strange that you consider the person who rejects me and the person who calls me Kafir as two different persons, whereas in the eyes of God he is the same type; because he who does not accept me is because he considers me a fabricator.... apart from this, he who does not accept me, he does not believe in God and His Prophet as well, because there is God92s and his Prophet's prophecy regarding me" (Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol.22 p.167)

"It is our obligation that we do not consider non-ahmadis as muslims and do not pray behind them, because for us they have rejected one prophet (Mirza Ghulam) of God. This is a religious matter and no one has any right to do anything in it." (Anwar-e-Khilafat, by Mirza Mahmood, Khalifa 2, p.90)

"All muslims who are not included in the initiation of Maseeh Mowood, even if they have not heard the name of Maseeh Mowood, they are Kafir and out of the fold of Islam. I admit that these are my beliefs." (Aina-e-Sadaqat, by Mirza Mahmood, 2nd Khalifa, p.35)

"Every one who accepts Moses but not Eisa or accepts Eisa but not Mohammad or accepts Mohammad but not Maseeh Mowood, he is not only Kafir but a hardened Kafir and is out of the fold of Islam. (Kalimat-alFasl by Mirza Basheer Ahmad s/o Mirza Ghulam p.110)


Question: "Is it permitted to say May God Bless the departed soul, forgive him and send him to Paradise for a person who was not included in Ahmadiyyat?"

Answer: "The KUFR of non-Ahmadis is proven by evident signs and it is not permitted to ask for forgiveness for non-believers (KUFFAR)." (Al-Fazl Qadian vol.8, No. 59, 7th Feb 1921)

"Non-Ahmadis are the disbelievers therefore their funeral prayers should not be offered, but if an infant of non-ahmadi dies, why should we not pray his funaral prayer, he is not a disbeliever of Maseeh Mowood? I ask the inquirer, that if this is true than why don't we offer funeral prayer of a Hindu or a Christian child? How many people offer their funeral prayer?" (Anwar-e-Khilafat, Mirza Mahmood, 2nd Khalifa, p.93)

"It is the order of Hazrat Maseeh Mowood and firm order that no ahmadi should give his daughter to non-ahmadi. It is obligatory on every ahmadi to carry it out..... there is great loss in it, besides this marriage is not permitted." (Barakat-e-Khilafat by Mirza Mehmood p.73)

"Our prayers are separate from Non-ahmadis, it is forbidden to give our girls to them, we are stopped to offer their funeral prayers. Now what is left that we can participate with them? There are only two kinds of relations - religious and worldly. For religious relations, it is the gathering for prayers and for worldly relations, it is the marriage and both are forbidden for us." (Mirza Basheer Ahmad s/o Mirza Ghulam, Kalimat alFasl p.169)

"The point is now quite clear. If it is 'Kufr' (infedility) to deny the Gracious Prophet (Muhammad pbuh), it must also be 'Kufr' to deny the Promised Messiah, because the Promised Messiah is in no way a separate being from the Gracious Prophet; rather he is the same (Muhammad incarnate). If anyone is not deemed a Kafir for denying the Promised Messiah, then anyone else who denies the Gracious Prophet also cannot be considered a Kafir. How is it possible that denying him in his first birth as Prophet should be regarded as Kufr, but denying him in his (reincarnated) second birth as prophet should not be regarded as Kufr, when, as claimed by the Promised Messiah, his (Mirza's birth as Muhammad incarnate) spiritual attainment is stronger, complete and severe." (Kalimatul Fasl, pages 146-147, as cited in the Review of Religions, dated March-April 1915)

"Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad, or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but a 'pakka' (confirmed) Kafir, and (he is) out of the fold of Islam." (Kalimatul Fasl, page 110, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad, M.A.)

"All such Muslims who did not swear allegiance to the promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), even though they did not hear the name of the Promised Masih, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam." (Aiena-e-Sadaqat, page 35, by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad Qadiani).

[Roshina]

InshAllah in this thread we will demolish the fundamental beliefs of the ahmadiyyah cult and expose their war against Islam. May Allah curse them and kill them where ever they are and burn them in hell.

Four things.

1. Your thread proved quite unsuccessful, and it WILL continue proving unsuccessful. Do you want to re-consider your approach of "teaching" a certain message or view, or should I say it myself? Okay, I'll give you a hint: You are arguing with yourself. You're not listening to anyone else, and you're not ready to either.

2. You sound like someone who could use a lot of prayers. Only people in need of others' prayers tend to invoke God's curses upon others. May you be guided to the "True Path," whichever that may be, and may you learn how to listen properly. May you also be blessed with the faculties of pondering and understanding.

3. You're copying and pasting material that others have invested much time in. It's dishonest, and wrong in every way, of you to share their writings here without giving them ANY credit. Not only that ... sorry, but no one in her/his right mind is gonna read LONG articles that are pasted from elsewhere. Why should we bother?

4. I have found many, many holes in the arguments presented by the writer(s) of those articles. However, unfortunately, having seen your responses so far here (other than your posts in which you've pasted all that stuff without probably even having read yourself, I am sure), I know that you're not going to listen to what I have to say. You have proven yourself to be the type of person who says, "I'm right, you're wrong, end of story." You don't seem the type who'll say, "Okay, this is my belief and to me it's fact, but show me where I'm wrong, or show me what's wrong with this."

Otherwise, I'd gladly go through every single point that made against Ahamdi Muslims by extremist Sunni Muslims. Naturally, I would want you to hear what I've to say when I took my time listening to you as well. And you'd know that I listened if I respond to your posts by pointing out what I find wrong in the claims in the articles you've shared. I'd know YOU listened to me in return by refuting what I've to say as well.

P.S. People who HAVE the answers to your questions and the reuttals to your claims are "lying munafiq" to you (wow, seriously? Could you GET any lower than this as a human?), but what does that make you, Inqilab? What do you think you are in their opinion, when they're (in your opinion) "lying munafiq"?