Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If thats so, then YOU are the headmaster of deception, as you so conveniently left off the otherwise translations (from ur delusionary stance) in your very first post about this verse..Atleast i ignored the contradictory translations keeping in view the Ahadiths of the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) which should be believed side by side with the Quran. Why not take such a meaning which satisfies both the Quran and Hadees?! Quran is not an ordinary book, theres no other like It, its complicated thats why we can have many different meanings of each and every verse, and as Saif ul haq explained to you that the literal meaning is also not what you have assumed yourself (which u dont want to accept, offcourse).. I am sorry to say but u are making this debate confusing by putting question after question instead of representing your point..we are not here to fill any questionairre but to discuss the matter by presenting our beliefs.

No, I think you are the "headmaster of deception"

You conveniently left off other translations.

I have always maintained that when Allah is the doer and a human is the one the action is being done upon, the word tawaffa only and only means death.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^Sorry, could you kindly rephrase, dear sister.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If it does not make sense to you despite unbiased investigation,then no. This is the Quranic teaching with respect to all prophets.

[Badlun]

I think the thread is about Ahmadis. I am personally not Ahmadi or Qadyani but have seen them very closely.

If they openly announce that they believe in the finality of the prophethood of Hazrat Muhammad in all senses then they are a very organized, peaceful and good people.

Their main problem is that they dont clealry announce that they consider the prophet Muhammad as the final prophet, messanger of Allah with revelation of Quran and Mirza Ghulam Muhammad was just a reformer and a scholar with no divine revelation or wahi and no status of a messanger, messiah, mehdi , prophet or whatever in this sense.

if they do so then will flourish.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin, Your thoughts?

There is no validity to this; he clearly believed that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I think the thread is about Ahmadis. I am personally not Ahmadi or Qadyani but have seen them very closely.

If they openly announce that they believe in the finality of the prophethood of Hazrat Muhammad in all senses then they are a very organized, peaceful and good people.

Their main problem is that they dont clealry announce that they consider the prophet Muhammad as the final prophet, messanger of Allah with revelation of Quran and Mirza Ghulam Muhammad was just a reformer and a scholar with no divine revelation or wahi and no status of a messanger, messiah, mehdi , prophet or whatever in this sense.

if they do so then will flourish.

Dearest and one of the most respected members,

Ahmadis do believe that Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is Khatamun Nabiyyeen. They believe that no law can ever abrogate the Law of Islam. However, they believe that other prophets can come after Hadhrat Muhammad (saw); however, those prophets cannot be outside of Islam and must preach and propagate the Islamic Law.

Non-Ahmadi Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (as) would be a prophet when he returns, as per the hadith in Sahih Muslim. However, they claim because he was a prophet and therefore will be a prophet. Further, once Allah gives a gift He does not take it back.

The Ahmadis say that Hadhrat Isa (as) has passed away, therefore, the Messiah to come will be a prophet from within the ummah.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What do you mean by "validity," dear sister?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Oh ok!

I did explain it, albeit briefly.

Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad believed that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was prophet.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear Shlombay and Jasmine, this quote is for both of you:

Look what it says on the pages (pdf paging system)73-75 of his (Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad) book:

"As for the question of Kufr (unbelief) of non-Ahmadi Muslims, my belief is that Kufr really arises from a denial of God. Hence, whenever there comes any revelation from God of such a nature that its acceptance is obligatory on every man, a rejection of the same leads to Kufr. Belief in such a revelation, however, presupposes belief in the bearer of the revelation. Hence it follows that a belief in the bearer of such revelation is a necessary part of one’s faith. The man who rejects a Prophet thus necessarily becomes a kafir, not because he denies the truth of any particular Prophet X or Y, but such denial will necessarily lead him to reject a revelation of God. To me, the Kufr which arises from the denial of any Nabi has its basis in this principle and not in any personal quality of the Nabi. And inasmuch as the revelation of which the acceptance is obligatory on mankind comes only through Prophets, it is the rejection of such recipients of Divine revelation, and not of others that leads to unbelief. Now, as we hold that the revelation which came to the Promised Messiah (as) are such that their acceptance is obligatory on mankind in general, to us, the man who rejects the Promised Messiah (as) is a kafir agreeably to the teachings of the Holy Quran, although he may well be a believer in all the other truths of religion because the presence even of one of the necessary conditions of Kufr is sufficient to make a man kafir. I may however add that in my opinion Kufr arises from a denial of one or more of the fundamental articles of religion, not because such a denial makes a man the object of unending punishment, but because the denial makes him guilty of rebellion against God and leads to the extinction of his spiritual life. Now, as Islam bases its judgments upon what is patent and not upon what is possible, it cannot but class as kafir such as fail to accept any of the Prophets, even though such failure may be due to their want of information concerning him. In the latter case, they will not, of course, be the objects of Divine punishment. The denial would be due to causes altogether beyond their control. It is in accordance with the same principle that Muslims have so long with one accord designated as kuffar all those who have not accepted the faith of Islam, without taking into consideration the question whether or not such failure is occasioned by want of adequate information concerning the Holy Prophet(sa). "

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin I have a question. If one does not believe in Mirza Ghulam does he go to heaven? isnt it like rejecting this prophecy have consequences?

If yes they will go to heaven. why accept it and face a headache?

To briefly answer your question: According to the Quran one must accept every prophet, no ifs or buts. The onus is on your to find out whether he is or not.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin I have a question. If one does not believe in Mirza Ghulam does he go to heaven? isnt it like rejecting this prophecy have consequences?

If yes they will go to heaven. why accept it and face a headache?

Who goes to Heaven and who does not is not my concern. That is Allah's prerogative.

But if Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a prophet then you would be going directly against the commandment of the Quran for we must accept all prophets.

If you are worried about the headache, then just imagine if no one accepted Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) because of the headaches that would come with it. Believers' hearts are different once truth reaches them.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

true. but how do we know if he is or not?

Honest to God, prayer. I have found that to ask Allah for help in these matters is so important. The investigation becomes much more easier.

Even Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has said not to rely on anything but Allah Himself.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Do istikharah.

[Badlun]

true. but how do we know if he is or not?

I dont know much about the context of this question but
Muslims know that Miraz Ghulam was not a prophet because there cant be any prophet after the prophet Muhammad. So no question arises at least for Muslims that whethe rto believe or not n Ghulam Mrza as a prophet.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^In previous times, when a prophet would die they would say that no prophet would ever be raised again. Yet, Allah always raised prophets. This is clearly indicated in the Quran.