Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I dont know much about the context of this question but
Muslims know that Miraz Ghulam was not a prophet because there cant be any prophet after the prophet Muhammad. So no question arises at least for Muslims that whethe rto believe or not n Ghulam Mrza as a prophet.

Dearest osho, one cannot question one aspect of Islam and not question another. One has to be consistent. One's conscience would dictate this.

I do not mean any disrespect by this. I regard you very dear, if not for nothing else, at least for your honesty when you express your views.

[Badlun]

I just want to know n simples words that whether Ahmads are Muslms or not if yes then why all schools of thought in Islam agree that they are not and if no then why they call themselves as true Muslms

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Of course they are Muslim.

As for the rest of your question, I will answer it telling you that they were called kafir by a vote of 72-1. That should be enough to tell you who is right and who is wrong.

That exact vote count was published in newspapers.

[Saif ul Haq]

Actually, if you think that those translators are not consistent then bring forth the use of the same word in the Quran.

Further, when Allah is fa'il and a human being is maf'ul bihi, then the word only means death. This is in Arabic dictionaries. Unfortunately, you were so dishonest when you were quoting Al Mawrid.

In this case, Allah is the fa'il and Hadhat Isa (as) is the maf'ul bihi, hence Allah gave him death. Hence, Hadhrat Isa (as) is passed away.

That's interesting, please quote what I had said that was dishonest and correct it and give the reference

You keep making claims without any references, one can only think you have no proof and are just a logical fallacy that shouldn't be taken seriously

[Saif ul Haq]

Page 391, Al Mawrid. Lets see what you have to say now.

What's on page 391? Could you please quote it

[Saif ul Haq]

You conveniently left off what I was referring to. You did not present all of the meanings of tawaffa. I would confidently call the intellectual dishonesty.

It's okay, if you won't agree, I will post it for your "convenience."

Same as above, show my dishonesty and correct it with the proper proof and references thank you

[Saif ul Haq]

Even if we were to do that, Hadhrat Isa (as) would still be declared dead. The same verse will be used by our beloved Prophet (saw) on the Day of Judgment with respect to some Muslims. Check Bukhari, tafseer 5:117.

Does this then also mean that Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is alive in the sky?

Please quote for all of us to see, al-Bukhaari is 9 volumes

If Jesus died, then how did he die and when?

Was he crucified as the Jews and Christians say?

If not, did he live the rest of his life until death came?

Did he die while being saved?

Once again kindly give references...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Please quote for all of us to see, al-Bukhaari is 9 volumes

If Jesus died, then how did he die and when?

Was he crucified as the Jews and Christians say?

If not, did he live the rest of his life until death came?

Did he die while being saved?

Once again kindly give references...

I was referring to the fact that the same verse will be used by our Prophet (saw) on the Day of Judgment. Hence, is our Prophet (saw) alive in the Heavens?

As for the rest of your question:

1. He died a natural death, he did not die by means of crucifixion.
2. Whether he died naturally or not that is what we are discussing.

[Saif ul Haq]

I uploaded al-Mawrid for you online if you don't have it as a hard copy

I would like you to show all of us where I was dishonest, let's see if you are certainly honest here

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Click the link and download the file

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I have a question similar to this. I mean if I meet a Shia he swears he is right. I swear I am right.

Prayer, dear brother. Then investigation.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What's on page 391? Could you please quote it

Just as you opened Al Mawrid to find out the other meanings of tawaffa. Look closely and you will see its usage when Allah is fa'il and a human being a maf'ul bihi: it mentions death.

The last reference on the bottom right hand side, it mentions: توفاه الله and the translation is given as: death.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I uploaded al-Mawrid for you online if you don't have it as a hard copy

I would like you to show all of us where I was dishonest, let's see if you are certainly honest here

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Click the link and download the file

I have given you the page number and exactly where to find it.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I am glad you uploaded it. Everyone can see now.

[Saif ul Haq]

Just as you opened Al Mawrid to find out the other meanings of tawaffa. Look closely and you will see its usage when Allah is fa'il and a human being a maf'ul bihi: it mentions death.

The last reference on the bottom right hand side, it mentions: توفاه الله and the translation is given as: death.

Do you know how to use a dictionary? You're mistaking tawaffaq with tawaffa. Did you really read my post here

http://www.pashtunforums.com/93711-post102.html

Regarding "Tawaffa", we will look at what Arabic grammarians have to say, as they are the experts. Root word for "Tawaffa" is "Waffa" and according to 'al-Mawrid' on page 1240 - "Waffa" means:

"To give someone his due in full, let someone have his full share, pay someone in full, to treat exhaustively, write or speak fully about, set forth or develop in detail, fulfillment, keeping, honoring, carrying out, living up to, redemption, making good, standing by, carrying out."

And I also had mentioned

In return "Tawaffa" means "taking the self back" or as mentioned in 'al-Mawrid'

"to take (receive, get, obtain) one’s due or one’s share in full"

Along with the following

Allah also uses "Tawaffa" in the following verses: "It is He Who takes you back to Himself (yatawaffakum) at night, while knowing the things you perpetrate by day, and then wakes you up again, so that a specified term may be fulfilled. Then you will return to Him. Then He will inform you about what you did." [6:60]

"Allah takes back people’s selves (tawaffa) when their death arrives and those who have not yet died, while they are asleep. He keeps hold of those whose death has been decreed and sends the others back for a specified term. There are certainly Signs in that for people who reflect." [39:42]

These verses are clear that Allah takes back the self of the one who is in sleep and returns it to those who are not yet to die. For those who die, their self is returned.

So it can be said that the phrase “take your souls by night” (6:60) means to cause you to sleep just as the phrase “yab athukum” (to revive or quicken you or, as translated, to be raised) is used to refer to us waking up from sleep.

[Saif ul Haq]

I think we have a problem of him imagining things and not actually reading what I posted