Who is a kafir--where do we draw the line?

[abubaker]

Whatever man! Learn to keep your self out of things that dont involve you.

Kind Regards

ahil insana, tha khpala dir kha shai ye chi zazi tha di khabara kawala, tha layada wawathl si zma koranai di debate ki involve kaldi wa, ya di ''CHARGI MAGHZA'' lari

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

No one has the right to label anyone a non muslim, even if someone is sinning, because we don't know their inward maqam/state with Allah, and they may be closer to Allah then we are. For e.g. the prostitute that was forgiven because she gave water to a dog. Prosittution is a sin and yet God forgave her. We don't have the right to judge anyone.

^^ what gives you the authority to say that to someone?

everyone uses big words so lightly.

why is everyone so quick to judge?

I don't know what is your level of education and I don't know what is your level of religious knowledge but these are golden rules you have pointed out.


May Allah give all of the Muslims some decency to protect ANY Muslim who calls themselves Muslim. We should love anyone who calls themselves Muslims. I can tell you so many stories about how Muslims have helped me simply for the fact that I look Muslim and I call myself a Muslim.

It breaks my heart how we are ready to defend non-Muslims but are so ready to pounce on our own.

May Allah strengthen this ummah with the Muslims we have. Every Muslim owes it to the early Muslims to protect every Muslim and love every Muslim.

Allah is the Judge, you and I are here because of Him and at the end of the day we are hoping for His mercy and love.

End of the day He forgave a prostitute for what? She gave water to a dog. Imagine if we are merciful to each other how much forgiveness we might get from our Creator?

[eyeliner]

^^ yes its true, but i don't appreciate it when people feel muslims are superior to non muslims, because i have a really strong core belief which is that muslim is an outward rank that we classify people, we don't know what they get upto behind closed doors, we only see what what want to see.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^^ yes its true, but i don't appreciate it when people feel muslims are superior to non muslims, because i have a really strong core belief which is that muslim is an outward rank that we classify people, we don't know what they get upto behind closed doors, we only see what what want to see.

No human being is perfect. Allah is the hider of flaws. However, we are an ummah. We should love each other and not condemn each other to hell. I am only referring to this.

I am not suggesting that we all become friends, what I am saying is not to easily use the word kafir, just as you have mentioned.

[eyeliner]

i 100% accept what your saying, i'm not saying people should make haram things public. I am saying that just because someone calls themselves a muslim is what that person portrays to us, in reality that has no spiritual significance. But everyone is equal. today someone might be bad and tomorrow they may be granted guidance so you can't shut that door on them. For e.g. Umar RA was on his way to kill the prophet he accepted islam, when the prophet heard of this he didnt say i told you so, he said welcome. Also on one occasion the prophet was given a choice to let two mountains crumble on the people he even though they had wronged him so much, he said no the next generation of muslims might come from these people. We should do dawah, not promote some sort of exclusive muslim only group, where only muslims are wellcome.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

i 100% i accept what your saying, i'm not saying people should make haram things public. I am saying that just because someone calls themselves a muslim is what that person portrays to us, in reality that has no spiritual significance. But everyone is equal today someone might be bad and tomorrow they may be granted guidance so you can't shut that door on them. For e.g. Umar RA was on his way to kill the prophet when he accepted islam, when he prophet heard of this he didnt say i told you so, he said welcome. Also on one occasion the prophet was given a choice to let two mountains crumble on the people he even though that had wronged him so much, he said no the next generation of muslims might come from these people. We should do dawah, not promote some sort of exclusive muslim only group, where only muslims are wellcome.

Dearest and beloved sister,

what do you think "ummah" means?

[eyeliner]

it means that we all unite, i am saying that as an ummah, we should help others. But at the same time we should be inclusive.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

it means that we all unite, i am saying that as an ummah, we should help others. But at the same time we should be inclusive.

Of course, this is what I believe in. Unfortunately, today, Muslims don't know how to help their own, how on earth do you think for us to help others?

We only know how to take, it is rare for us to comprehend the concept of giving.

Muslim people will never accept or give citizenship to people from other Muslim countries. However, the Western world not only gives you citizenship but gives you hope in life.

So, yes, you are correct.

[eyeliner]

^^ true lol. But we shouldn't reject anyone.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^^ true lol. But we shouldn't reject anyone.

What do you mean by "reject anyone?"

[eyeliner]

like when muslims give preference. and looks at others as outcasts.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

like when muslims give preference. and looks at others as outcasts.

I am at the fore-front to promote that Heaven is not only limited to Muslims. However, following Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) you can reach the highest level possible, by-passing all the other levels other teachings can help you to reach.

[eyeliner]

the thing is that people assume that just by calling themselves muslims, they've got the ticket.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

the thing is that people assume that just by calling themselves muslims, they've got the ticket.

Correct. This is wrong. It is your actions that should speak more about you being a Muslim.

[eyeliner]

^^ exactly my point. Words are just hollow, its actions that speak louder.