Who is a kafir--where do we draw the line?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Anyone who has read Islamic history would know that whenever there was disagreement between scholars, the only way to resolve their issues was to result to takfeer, declaring someone an infidel, and then passing the fatwah of killing that person because he or she would be wajibul qatl, worthy of killing. Unfortunately, you see this even on these fora.

Whenever, Brother Sangar, for example, presents something as "Islamic" you have people saying that this is not Islam.

Whenever, you have Brother Mujib presenting something he is attacked for spreading unIslamic values.

This is just a few to name.

If you follow threads and posts closely, we have Muslims declaring others Muslims kafir because they don't conform to the other's beliefs.

I could care less for the reasons for why we are declaring each other kafir, my dilemma is where do you draw the line?

What is sunnah? What is fard?

Here you have Mujib presenting something which is supposed to be Islamic and you have Sangar brother discrediting him. Or, you have another brother who is presenting something and you have Mujib brother warning about the falsehood that is being spread.

If we look at the essence of what is happening, we are essentially kicking each other out of Islam. Who is going to be left? No wonder, why Muslims are the mockery of the other nations.

My suggestion: instead of worrying about others, worrying about yourself and educate yourself so that you are not on the wrong path. Period. If you feel that someone else is on the wrong path, just tell him or her kindly why you believe you are on the right path, then allow the other person to explain himself and then just leave it that.

Today, Shias and all of their individual branches claim that they are on the sunnah. Yet, each Shia sect declares the other kafir.
Today, we have Sunnis and all of their branches claiming to be on the right path, yet they have individually declared other branches as kafirs.
It goes without saying that Shias and Sunnis have declared each other kafir and out of the fold of Islam.

Finally, when you have people who are defending for people to have the right to call themselves Muslims they are attacked and the slandering starts...WHY???

Where do we draw the line?

[شمله ور خراساني]

you are a qadiani. You dont count as a muslim anyway. Why do you worry?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You can call me what you want. As long as it makes you happy, but allow me to believe what I want.

[شمله ور خراساني]

btw, as usual you have stated falsehood in your post. Sunnis do not declare Shia or other semi-Sunnis such as Ash'aris as kuffaar.

Sunnis declare Ismailis and Qadianis as kuffaar. And some indivuals. And this happens by the fatawa of experts on the matter.

No individual Muslim can go around declaring others as kuffaar.

But if someone outwardly reveals his kufr by associating himself with Qadiianis, Ismailis or goes around saying Richard Dawkins has more valid arguments than Allah does...then it is evident that such people are kuffaar.

There is no need to dramatize everything.

It is established by the scholars that ismailis and qadianis are not Muslims. And who-ever rejects word of allah and prefers other than allah as the truth is kaafir.

Its as simple as that.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Where do you get the yard-stick for this?

[شمله ور خراساني]

You can call me what you want. As long as it makes you happy, but allow me to believe what I want.

why should I allow you to believe in falsehood? tomorrow you will end up in eternal hellfire and I will be asked by allah why I did not convey the message of truth to you.


By remaining silent when there is clear cut evident kufr, one is becoming sinful.

It is a sin to allow falsehood to be spread and to sit silently.

If you promote Qadianism, which is kufr, obviously you will draw attention from Muslims. And you will lead others astray.

You might be a lost case, which I hope not. And I pray that allah guides back to Islam. But if you go around leading other people astray, know that any decent Muslim will be there to make others aware of the fact that you are preaching kufr.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Where do you get the yard-stick for this?

opinion of scholars.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Just a few clips from the internet:

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar why dont you just debate with him?

debate what? I made a thread where I allowed him to present his case, he started a soap opera there and then left without addressing the issues I have raised.

What do you want me to do? Go after him and beg him?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Very good post MeemWawMeemNoon this is our problem. Sangar calls you kafir, You call Sangar kafir, Abubaker calls me Kafir.


This is why Jews rule us.

Dear brother, please edit your post.


I have never called anyone a kafir. I have never called Sangar a kafir. In my eyes, he is a Muslim. In my eyes, anyone calls themselves a Muslim is a Muslim.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Dear brother, please edit your post.


I have never called anyone a kafir. I have never called Sangar a kafir. In my eyes, he is a Muslim. In my eyes, anyone calls themselves a Muslim is a Muslim.

You called me murtad for at least 50 times. Admin had to remove that thread when you and your Ismaili friend, Qrratugai and others were mocking me.

Remember?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You called me murtad for at least 50 times. Admin had to remove that thread when you and your Ismaili friend, Qrratugai and others were mocking me.

Remember?

I think you missed the whole point of that exercise. It was to give you a taste of your own interpretation of Islam. Unfortunately, you were unable to grasp the reason behind what I was trying to do.

As per your own interpretation of Islam, you should be killed and not be a Muslim today. I was simply trying to show you how absurd your interpretation of Islam is. Please note, Sangar Jana,that the apostasy laws did not apply to you, but anyone else in your shoes it would have applied to.

What I was trying to do was to show you that technically speaking you are a murtad, because you should have been killed, as per your own interpretation of Islam. Humorously, you managed to find a non-existent clause to get out of the apostasy ruling.

[شمله ور خراساني]

kindly make a thread. Look at his posts the ones you have a problem with quote him and debate with him.

we are brothers Sangar. Both of you are from Kabul.

I did that. Go and look for the thread I made " confronting the qadiani meemwawmeemnoon"

And no. I am no brother to a Qadiani. I am brother to Muslims.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Sangar Jana

Who is a Muslim in your eyes? You have mocked everyone here who does not conform to you beliefs?

Sangar, is sunnipath.com Muslim?,

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Inshallah I have a dream. A dream that in 1 year we will be looking back these posts and we will be happy cause by then we will be unified.

Sangar is our loved brother.

In my eyes, he is a Muslim--always has been and always will be.

He and some others need to change their stance and not call people kafir so easily.