Death penalty for leaving Islam discussion.

[akbarkhan]

In the US, the standards of evidence are raised for this charge.

That said, who is being 'blind' to their own laws? I simply pointed out that the state I live in has prohibited the death penalty -- including non federal charges -- charges by states over violating state laws.

Additionally, while it may be 'on the books' this law is seldom invoked:

Thats what I wanted to hear! Islam's last resort in dealing with Murtads is the capital punishment, its rarely used. If you stopped piss-farting and actually studied Islam you would come to realize that Islam has made it very difficult to invoke capital punishment. Infact, at times of peace, security and stability most punishments don't apply. There are times when certain people have voluntarily confessed to Prophet Mohammad pbuh of a committed sin i.e fornication and Mohammad pbuh has let them off.

You should first familiarize youself with Islamic jurisprudence properly instead of jumping into conlusions. Islamic law is vast, there are people who base their entire PhD thesis on a single Hadith.

[akbarkhan]

So if you leave Islam, no problem -- they cannot be doing treason.

No it is treason, every case is treated individually and capital punishment is the very last resort, capital punishment applies particularly when the apostate is harmful to the society. Mohammad pbuh has said "Ward off the penalties (hudud) as much as you can" and he has demonstrated that principle many times.

Once again the assumption that only one problem can be addressed at a time...

No, it is you bashing Islam under the pretext of human rights whilest ignoring your own country's history, constitutional law and precendents! But thats alrite, I don't blame you it can be very difficult to digest.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

I already knew that, I don't bring anything up until I have fully researched it - and by research I don't mean resorting to Sheikh Google!

Obviously not many, when there have fewer than 40 prosecutions. Not to mention the fact that by definition they cannot be charged simply for supporting the political movement of communism.

Regardless, it is there.

Sorry, try again, Prophet Akbarkhan. I must say it is nice to see you here, Now that you are here, we have a genuine prophet of Islam to dictate what all true Muslims *must* believe.

ad-hominem :-)

[tor_khan]

If you want to discuss pedophilia, I think that should be in a new thread.

This should NOT be encouraged. You have been PMed.

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

If the person who leaves Islam is a threat.

Kill him.

What decides he is a threat ?? and threat to what?

[شمله ور خراساني]

And how do you guys expect people to Join Islam knowing if they want to leave they will get killed?

We don't expect. It is up to them.

[ozymandias]

Thats what I wanted to hear! Islam's last resort in dealing with Murtads is the capital punishment, its rarely used. If you stopped piss-farting and actually studied Islam you would come to realize that Islam has made it very difficult to invoke capital punishment. Infact, at times of peace, security and stability most punishments don't apply. There are times when certain people have voluntarily confessed to Prophet Mohammad pbuh of a committed sin i.e fornication and Mohammad pbuh has let them off.

Here are three of the countries that allow the death penalty, and the number of people killed each year, as an absolute number...

2 Iran At least 388 3 Iraq At least 120 4 Saudi Arabia At least 69

You should first familiarize youself with Islamic jurisprudence properly instead of jumping into conlusions. Islamic law is vast, there are people who base their entire PhD thesis on a single Hadith.

Don't worry -- I am much more aware than you pretend I am.

[ozymandias]

No it is treason, every case is treated individually and capital punishment is the very last resort, capital punishment applies particularly when the apostate is harmful to the society. Mohammad pbuh has said "Ward off the penalties (hudud) as much as you can" and he has demonstrated that principle many times.

Main Entry: trea·son
Pronunciation: \ˈtrē-zən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tresoun, from Anglo-French traisun, from Latin tradition-, traditio act of handing over, from tradere to hand over, betray — more at traitor
Date: 13th century
1 : the betrayal of a trust : treachery
2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family


Even extending the definition to include *religion* as well as country, once you leave Islam you would not be doing treason, as you are not a member of that religion. At worst, if they are in a country with such repressive laws as to restrict freedom of religion, they are possibly being traitors to that country.

No, it is you bashing Islam under the pretext of human rights whilest ignoring your own country's history, constitutional law and precendents! But thats alrite, I don't blame you it can be very difficult to digest.

Not at all, but you seem to need to believe that to get through your day.

I already knew that, I don't bring anything up until I have fully researched it - and by research I don't mean resorting to Sheikh Google!




Regardless, it is there.

Regardless I yet again have shown one of your statements to be a bald faced lie.

ad-hominem :-)

Not at all. I am not trying to refute the validity of your claims, rather I am mocking your attempts to invoke the Muslim equivalent of ex cathedra and dictate what all Muslims must believe to be Muslim without citing sources. It is not a comment on the premise you raise, but on how you are raising it. Not only that, but in this case your personal character is very much at stake here, as you quite often fall back on the infallibility of your opinion showing the flaws in your character and opinion are not fallacious.

[ozymandias]

This should NOT be encouraged. You have been PMed.

I would like to make a public apology. It was against forum rules for me to suggest a new thread regarding the reason why many people have concerns regarding the marriage of Mohammad to Aisha.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^Uncalled for.

Keep your sarcasm to yourself. Your contributions are nice, but no need to insult our Prophet (saw) or our mother (ra).

[ozymandias]

^Uncalled for.

Keep your sarcasm to yourself. Your contributions are nice, but no need to insult our Prophet (saw) or our mother (ra).

No sarcasm intended. I have been informed by a moderator that this topic is forbidden on these forums and I have to abide by that ruling until said moderator changes his mind, or is overruled by Admin Khan.

I fully respect the rules of a private forum such as this one, and grant that the moderators and administrators are allowed to set any rules they wish, up to and including restrictions on what and how topics can be discussed. My stance on free speech concerns only speech in public and government censors -- and does not extend to privately run and operated channels such as individual forums.

I respect the admin that rebuked me, and the admin that placed him in charge.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Just leave this part of your post: "I would like to make a public apology." and delete the rest. Please. This is a humble request.

[ozymandias]

Just leave this part of your post: "I would like to make a public apology." and delete the rest. Please. This is a humble request.

I have edited my comment in response to a PM from a member.

I may do so further, but I will *not* be making a blanket apology. I am apologizing for violating the forum rules, nothing more, nothing less.

[ozymandias]

Ozymandias, This forum has the most freedom out of any other Forum I have been too.
PF is your home sir. You are a respected member here and an equal member just like everyone else. So don't get it twisted.

No worries.

But, I don't think you are understand the cause of death penalty in this context.

Please enlighten me, keeping in mind that this is about apostasy. Any further discussion of my comment violating the rules, or the topic it referred to ought to be in a new thread -- one that *I* will create if needed, so that any user violating the rules would be me. I am willing to risk that violation, but will not request any other user to do that.

[ozymandias]

Why do you have a problem with Islam having the same policy the US has?

First of all, it is not the same policy. Second of all, I have the same concerns regarding capital punishment for any crime, in any country or context.

[ozymandias]

Do you even know that the Quran does not even approve of Capital Punishment?

Indeed, I do. I am more interested in the discussion between the two sides here -- proof of something I have been pointing out for a while.

It is very similar however.(To those who believe to choose it)


Have you ever thought of converting to Islam? The religion of truth.

You have as much of a chance of converting me as any other religion, which admittedly is slim.