Death penalty for leaving Islam discussion.

[Roshina]

^ like what?

Like stoning to death people who commit adultery, lashing people because they drink alcohol, lashing or killing women who get raped, killing or otherwise brutally mistreating homosexuals, and so on.

These aren't commands of the Quran (in fact, oftentimes, the Quran says something totally different), but they're common occurrences in (almost?) all Muslim countries. Just because Muslims do it or it's been done for so many centuries doens't make it in ANY way Islamic or Islamically appropriate or supported by the Quran (sometimes even hadiths don't support these things, like killing women who get raped -- and girls who are "promiscuous," whatever that means). If you look at the prisons in which women are jailed for having committed sexual acts, you'll rarely find men! So you're like, "Umm... with WHOM did this woman commit this act? Did she do it by herself?"

So, yeah, such injustices are all over the place; they're part of the tradition, so much that they've been normalized, and if you stand up against them, you're told to shut up because you're only saying that because you like the west so much-- and, certainly, you KNOW liking the west is sin. A big sin, in fact.

[Roshina]

How you pray, ok.
but yes that was taught by the prophet pbuh. We followed HIS actions....we didn't see him killing people who left Islam...

what else?

I think he wants to go back to the idea of why hadiths are necessary in Islam, even though no one here is saying that they're not. :|

The role of hadiths should NOT be to abrogate what the Quran has stated. Their role should NOT go beyond merely elaborating what the Quran says, such as in case of how to perform prayers. (Of course, this argument has been and always will be refuted, and I can imagine why; but that's another topic all by itself.) The moment only hadiths are cited in support for a certain ruling/"crime" (e.g., apostasy) and the Quran is set aside, you KNOW something's wrong.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

How you pray, ok.
but yes that was taught by the prophet pbuh. We followed HIS actions....we didn't see him killing people who left Islam...

what else?

Ali ibn abitalib (the man promised heaven in this life only) and Ibn Abbas heard him order it and Imam Bukhari believed those words. Maybe you know something they didn't know?


Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.. Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57

The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I (Muhammad) am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims. Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17

[Muslimah]

That being said, a lot of the horrible things that happen in Muslim countries are done by government or powerful people who do what they do and call it Islam. They don't justify anything or prove any of this with ayas from Quran or proof from hadiths saying it is accepted.

Like, when in parts of African Muslim countries, they cut out little girls...parts...down there, and ...

Slide 10 .O {color:white; font-size:149%;} a:link {color:#999900 !important;} a:active {color:#990000 !important;} a:visited {color:white !important;} A women must gain sexual gratification in intimacy, it is her right. There is also a chapter of Quran specifically mentioning the clitoris and how it should not be removed as it is for the pleasure of the woman (Al-Tabarani 2-272.)

Islam disapproves - but they do this and say it is in the name of Islam. I would say PROVE IT!

I do however understand all of your reasoning. I appreciate posting proof.

[tor_khan]

If you want to discuss pedophilia, I think that should be in a new thread.

This should NOT be encouraged. You have been PMed.

I would like to make a public apology. It was against forum rules for me to suggest a new thread regarding the reason why many people have concerns regarding the marriage of Mohammad to Aisha.

PMed.

[Toramana]

Ozymander, Qrratagai, etc. have reasonable arguments.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Oh, so Muadudi knew how to time travel?

So you believe whatever someone, anyone, writes to be true?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

But I guess this kind of makes us ask ourselves:

What do you value more? History or Quran?

Precisely!

This is what the Holy Quran says: people will not use the Holy Quran to judge and they will abandon the Holy Quran.

This thread is a fulfillment of this prophecy.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

When people rely on scholars blindly and don't think for themselves then EVERY SINGLE opinion is right--because the scholar said so.

If we follow what Sangar is doing then I don't blame the Shi'a people for rejecting Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra).

It is not their fault.

The reason being is when we present verses of the Holy Quran to show that it does not sanction the killings of apostates, Sangar, tells us that it is a practice that has been happening since 1400 years ago. In other words, the Holy Quran does not matter for Sangar, only history, as Muslimah mentioned. Sangar, is not a follower of the sunnah of the Prophet (saw). He is the follower of the sunnah of the politically motivated "scholars."

The same thing goes for the Shi'a. They only care about history and don't care how high Hadhrat Abu Bakr (ra) is regarded in the Holy Quran. They just care whatever their own "scholars" say. They mock the first three khulafaa (ra) and have no regard for how dear these people are in the sight of Allah--mentioned in the Holy Quran.

I really feel sorry for people who can't think for themselves.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I have a fan here on Pashtunforums. Momin mentions my name at least once in most of his posts. HAHA

[tor_khan]

I have a fan here on Pashtunforums. Momin mentions my name at least once in most of his posts. HAHA

Temper it, Sangar ...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I am not your fan, don't flatter yourself.

Have some fear of God and reflect upon what you are preaching.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I am not your fan, don't flatter yourself.

Have some fear of God and reflect upon what you are preaching.

did you also have fear of allah when you told a lie about his prophet saww>

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

did you also have fear of allah when you told a lie about his prophet saww>

I never lied. Is this what you resort to all the time when you disagree with someone? If you can't handle a discussion then don't engage in one. You seem very trigger happy.

The text of the hadith does not contradict the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran does not forbid someone from loving their land, in fact it categorically mentions that people have been created different so that they may recognize one another. You even mentioned that it is natural to love one's land.

The same politically motivated people who say that we should kill apostates are the same people who have said that this hadith is false.

The more I read your posts the more I am convinced that you don't value the Holy Quran--just whatever suits your own ideals.

[Michin Khel]

No need to kill the apostate, he already kills his fate and destiny by rejecting and leaving true pathway of life, islam.