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Death penalty for leaving Islam discussion.

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  • So, I also called my imam to discuss this topic - I was loosing sleep over it!
    He said some would say yes, and some would say no.
    Those who say yes refer to the story of Abu Bakr and the campaign against apostasy.
    Here is some info:

    Apostasy campaigns. When after the death of the Holy Prophet, the storm of apostasy burst in the country and most of the tribes transferred their allegiance to false prophets' things for Islam appeared to be very dark. Abu Bakr faced the crisis with strong determination that knew no wavering. Apostasy campaigns began in August 632 C.E. and by February 633 C.E., apostasy was totally suppressed; Arabia stood unified, and all people in Arabia joined the fold of Islam. That was a remarkable achievement which changed the course of history. One shudders to think what would have been the fate of Islam, if Abu Bakr had, God forbid, failed in suppressing apostasy.
    Riddah campaigns. These campaigns are labeled by the Muslim historians as Riddah campaigns, i.e. campaigns against apostasy. Some western writers have found fault with this approach.
    J. Wellhausen, a German scholar has advanced the view that the Riddah was a break with the leadership in Madina and not with Islam qua religion. Caetni, a French author has advanced the view that certain tribes regarded Islam as an agreement with Muhammad (peace be on him), and considered the election of Abu Bakr as a private affair in Madina with which they were not concerned. Becker, an English writer, has held that the majority of those who seceded had never adopted Islam, and as such the campaigns against them could not be regarded as apostasy campaigns. Dr. Elias S. Shoufani, a Jewish scholar has held that contrary to what Muslim historians have claimed, the Riddah was not a religious movement; it was the Nejd tribes' repudiation of their fiscal obligations to Madina. Dr. Shoufani argues that in fact Arabia was far from being unified at the time of the death of the Holy Prophet. In the words of Dr. Shoufani: "The appellation of Riddah was carelessly expended by early story tellers to cover all movements in Arabia which were antagonistic to Madina. Later, the Muslim jurists adopted the facts to fit in their legal discourse, thus giving their accounts, a religious turn, and after that, historians embraced the early jurists' interpretation".
    Implications of the viewpoints of western writers. In the ultimate analysis the implications of the viewpoints of western writers work out as follows:
    1. By holding that Arabia was far from being unified at the time of the death of the Holy Prophet, the point sought to be made out is that the Holy Prophet in spite of his claim had not succeeded in completing his mission.
    2. By holding that the Riddah was a break with the leadership in Madina, and not with Islam qua religion, the point sought to be made out is that Abu Bakr was guilty of waging war against the Muslims for political and selfish ends.
    3. By holding that the majority of the people had not accepted Islam and as such there was no question of their apostasy, the point sought to be made out is that Abu Bakr was guilty of war of aggression against the people of Arabia and forcing Islam through the sword.
    4. By holding that the Muslim jurists adopted the facts to fit in their legal discourse, the point sought to be made out is that both the Muslim jurists and historians have distorted and perverted history.

    All these are wild allegations and baseless accusations which do not stand the test of any analysis of the course of history.

    Those that say no listen to the Qur'an that says:

    This long list of verses from the Holy Quran and the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) show that Islam at it's core and at its source is a religion of peace. Terrorists who persecute innocent people because of their faith are not welcome - their use of Islam as a scapegoat, does not make Islam what they portray it to be.
    2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.
    16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).
    6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.

    *This says that we cannot force them, that Allah swt determines their punishment. AND it says that we are to EDUCATE them if they stray away. Not kill.


    Maybe some of you will disagree, but I am going to have to stick to NO. I think the messages in the Quran and what it teaches are MUCH MORE valid than a mans actions to a situation following the death of our beloved Prophet (pbuh). Islam was spread by the sword during this time because people were straying away in large masses and Abu Bakr must've freaked out over losing followers of Islam. I would too if everyone was walking away...but that IS NOT the case.


    My final verdict: I shall stick to Qur'an....death penalty is NOT in the Quran.

    Comment


    • This whole concoction is the works of Maududi.

      Hadhrat Abu Bakr DID NOT kill anyone who left Islam. This is falsely attributed to him.
      Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

      [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

      [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MeemWawMeemNoon View Post
        This whole concoction is the works of Maududi.

        Hadhrat Abu Bakr DID NOT kill anyone who left Islam. This is falsely attributed to him.
        Oh, so Muadudi knew how to time travel?
        [SIZE="4"][B][CENTER][URL="www.quranawsunnat.com"]www.quranawsunnat.com
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        • So, as far as those who support the death penalty of apostates are concerned, not only do we need the hadiths to elaborate on what the Quran says (or to abrogate the Quran, as in the case of apostasy), but then since even hadiths aren't so specific (e.g., hadiths don't explain WHY or HOW apostates should be killed), we need scholars to explain this to us. And the only scholars whose views we should accept are those who support apostasy, like Mawdudi?

          Why? When hadiths aren't so specific on the matter -- again, they don't explain why apostates should be killed -- why do we need to get all apologetic about it and say, "No, no, no! It's not like you can kill ANYONE who leaves Islam, silly. Only those who try to kill or harm Muslims." Well, the part about those who try to kill Muslims is understandable: Even the Quran tells us that while we cannot initiate a war upon anyone, we CAN/should kill those who attempt to create unrest in land. The problem is, what is "unrest"? And what does it mean to "harm" Muslims? According to certain types of Muslims, anyone who tries to give you hadiths that are very violent and contravene the belief that Islam is a peaceful religion, is being harmful to Islam and Muslims!

          I find this very problematic. We have no reason to justify the death penalty of apostates when it clearly goes against the Quran -- and common sense and freedom of religion and a basic human right.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shlombay
            If the person who leaves Islam is a threat.

            Kill him.
            1. Define "threat," bro.

            2. A threat to whom? Muslims only? Non-Muslims? Humanity in general?

            3. According to whom? Which hadiths can you use to back this up, when other hadiths don't say this but only say "kill those who leave their religion"? (And by "religion," they mean Islam, as is specified by other hadiths.)

            Comment


            • Killing of apostates is widely discussed in classic compilations of fatawa

              One of the most famous opinions regarding killing of apostates was by Ibn Taymiyyah.

              I have read it, but I have not found it yet.

              If I do find it, I will post it here.
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              • ^Please do!

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                • But I guess this kind of makes us ask ourselves:

                  What do you value more? History or Quran?

                  Comment


                  • Gosh, this is SO going in circles.

                    Originally posted by Sangar View Post
                    Killing of apostates is widely discussed in classic compilations of fatawa

                    One of the most famous opinions regarding killing of apostates was by Ibn Taymiyyah.

                    I have read it, but I have not found it yet.

                    If I do find it, I will post it here.
                    But my concern isn't what these people say. My concern is what hadiths say. I'm very well aware of the lengthy write-ups of many classical as well as contemporary scholars on apostasy.

                    Otherwise, anyone -- and I mean ANYONE, not just Ibn Taymiyyah -- can give their explanation and reasoning for apostasy. And just as Ibn Taymiyyah offers his reasoning in support of apostasy, many offer theirs against it. As I always say, why should I listen to one and oppose the others?

                    By the way, Ibn Taymiyyah isn't the only source on the issue of apostasy; if you wanna be well-read on the matter, you should read more than one views of it, and not just Ibn Taymiyyah's.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Muslimah View Post
                      But I guess this kind of makes us ask ourselves:

                      What do you value more? History or Quran?
                      There are many things that are not in the quran, yet they are common practice in Islam.
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                      • ^ like what?

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                        • Originally posted by Qrratugai View Post
                          Gosh, this is SO going in circles.



                          But my concern isn't what these people say. My concern is what hadiths say. I'm very well aware of the lengthy write-ups of many classical as well as contemporary scholars on apostasy.

                          Otherwise, anyone -- and I mean ANYONE, not just Ibn Taymiyyah -- can give their explanation and reasoning for apostasy. And just as Ibn Taymiyyah offers his reasoning in support of apostasy, many offer theirs against it. As I always say, why should I listen to one and oppose the others?

                          By the way, Ibn Taymiyyah isn't the only source on the issue of apostasy; if you wanna be well-read on the matter, you should read more than one views of it, and not just Ibn Taymiyyah's.
                          I rather trust the opinion of classical scholars than innovators and modernists who want tochange the religion to something that resembles John Stuart Mills ideas.
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                          • Originally posted by Muslimah View Post
                            ^ like what?
                            Like how you pray for instance.
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                            • Originally posted by Muslimah View Post
                              ^ like what?
                              Eid-Milad-un-Nabi.

                              In any case, the vast majority of Muslims believe that the punishment for apostasy is death, regardless of what the Quran says. That is a fact. Go out in the street and conduct a survey. Ask around in your local mosque.... ask Zakir Naik. Or Bilal Phillips. Or the rest of the crowd. It doesn't matter what theology suggests, what matters is what people believe and what they practice.
                              "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be".

                              "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives".

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                              • How you pray, ok.
                                but yes that was taught by the prophet pbuh. We followed HIS actions....we didn't see him killing people who left Islam...

                                what else?

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