Death penalty for leaving Islam discussion.

[شمله ور خراساني]

See Muslimah, he would agree that you used logical reasoning to accept Islam. However, you are not allowed to use logical reasoning once you enter Islam.

Do you see the difference?

Are you saying that logic can lead one out of Islam?

[Roshina]

@ Sangar: For God's sake, stop calling people liars! It makes you look like a fool who's not worthy of being heard! When people "lie," or say something that you beleive is a lie, simply explain why. In discussions, you don't call people liars and such; you use evidence to prove them wrong.

See Muslimah, he would agree that you used logical reasoning to accept Islam. However, you are not allowed to use logical reasoning once you enter Islam.

Do you see the difference?

OMG! EXACTLY!! Whyyyyyyy can't we use reason within Islam but we can use it when outside of Islam? (Not that I agree that this is the case, of course, but according to some Muslims, this is the case.)

[Muslimah]

LOGIC - AND BRAINS
Will only make people follow Islam

hence my signature! As long as it is taught by people who also contain brains...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Sangar,

When we have scholars like you who say that if someone leaves Islam they should be killed then how can they leave? They would be dead.

Other than that, you are too slow to understand what I meant.

Sangar, tell me, what was discussed in your weekly meeting with your financiers? What is your recruit quota for this week? Did you buy your BMW yet?

[Muslimah]

^ on topic plz...that is gibberish

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Speaking of logic.

It is like little children who wet their pants and once you ask them why they did not use the potty, they would say "it wan't me" LOL

This might be your logic...but not a little kid's.

You are entertainment, Sangar. Beautiful.

[Roshina]

Well, are you saying I should go and search for all the instances you discussed scholars and how you now claim something other than you have said in the past?

You are being dodgly and the burden of proof is on us?

How's the burden of proof on me to show that I've never said a certain person is not a scholar just 'cause I don't like him? LOL. Think about it - "Here's proof that I never said this:...."! Seriously?! lol.

It should instead be, "Qrratugai, here's proof that you said this:...." Yeah, that makes more sense.

No, I'm not expecting you to go through every single one of my posts and find the evidence, but just at least ONE instance in which I said that would do -- with link to that post, so I can verify just to make sure you didn't take it out of context.

I'll wait, no worries.

In fact, to prove you totally wrong, I had to write a paper on the intellectual justification of the Taliban, and I had to dedicate a section to scholarship in Islam and the interpretations of Islam (which ones are accepted, which ones rejected, and why). As an academic writer, I am NOT allowed by my own standards as well as by the standards of my mentors to decide who's right and who's wrong based on my OWN vies. I can only make statetements like, "I disagree with this view because ..." or "I agree with this view because ..." nothing like "This person is telling a lie!" or "This person is WRONG!" etc.

I think I also have a blog post in which I tried to define a scholar and at the end of it, I quoted someone who's accepted as a scholar by some groups of Muslims (the quote was a pitiful remark made by the scholar, something he said without support from the Quran and/or hadiths), and so I said, "Oh my, never mind! There's no fixed definition of a scholar after all!"

[tor_khan]

There's a lot of one-up-manship in the postings here and having scrolled through all the postings, it is clear that the debate about apostasy and its punishment is now buried under a pile of personal remarks and attempts at outdoing the previous poster. I can sense the pressure build-up as I read from the beginning - the aggressiveness that comes out of the defensiveness is notable.

The problem, the way I see it is how this all ends up - I can't see agreement here and any non-Muslim surfing in and viewing these pages will typically gain more from our disunity than we gain from a debate that has already broken down and is now a postings war and nothing else.

It's Juma'ah - think peace - cleanse your hearts of anger - for now, take care of your own personal Islam - shortly we will be preparing ourselves for prayer.

If people are prepared to listen (as necessary), then debates carried out under less tiring/stressful circumstances are likely to yield a different level of understanding and cooperation.

[Muslimah]

what r ur views shlombayyyyyy
feel free to chip in!

Sangar - maybe I missed it...but who is the person who kills someone who leaves Islam?

Not saying any of us want someone to leave Islam...we would do our best to help them along their way and back onto the straight path...but who has the right to kill them?

[tor_khan]

MODERATOR NOTE:

The posts have detracted from the thread title.

Contributors are reminded to follow Forum Rules in their debating etiquette.

This thread is being locked.

[شمله ور خراساني]

what r ur views shlombayyyyyy
feel free to chip in!

Sangar - maybe I missed it...but who is the person who kills someone who leaves Islam?

Not saying any of us want someone to leave Islam...we would do our best to help them along their way and back onto the straight path...but who has the right to kill them?

For the past 1400 years the ruling was to kill apostates and many apostates have been killed by Muslim rulers. This is nothing new. However, the claim that apostasy should not be punished by death is a new concept some people who want to change islam to fit Western values are spreading.

[tor_khan]

Apostasy and Punishment

MODERATOR NOTE:

Locked for editing.

[Roshina]

Good.

And thanks for the reminder about debate etiquette :S It's getting quite frustrating 'cause too many baseless assumptions are made and when the opponent cannot be refuted, some of us tend to call her/him names instead of proving them wrong.

And, of course, we can rarely stay on topic!

[Roshina]

Wow! I had no idea it was in this much demand!

[tor_khan]

MODERATOR NOTE:

I've had several messages regarding the temporary lock placed on this thread.

Please note that threads are not locked on a whim. There was consultation before the thread was locked and this allowed some minor edits following a complaint.

Most the thread remains intact, but your patience whilst necessary edits are made is appreciated. For those wishing to continue the debate, please use this space.

Contributors are reminded that even in the case of difference of opinion, Forum Rules and debate etiquette must be observed.