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  • #61
    Originally posted by gadoonwal View Post
    i can post the history of gujars ,parachas,awan,kasabgars etc but this thread is for pashtun tribe only.
    It is ,,sharam,,among pashtuns to adopt even those professions you mentioned in your post.
    They are for kasabgars only.
    do you think ,,,nazai iqbal,,of swat is yousufzai ?
    no way ,a yousufzai of swat would never do such things.
    But we should care for them and respect them for their contribution to our society and culture.
    Yes true but "Yousafzai" is a word used by everyone residing in the yousafzai territory, the more specific word is Pure Pukhtuns.
    Yes i know Pure Pukhtuns never go for such lines.
    Anyhow, Brother i think we should not discuss this particular topic because some of the members would feel insecure and feel it descriminatory.
    we should go back to the topic

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by emkhan View Post
      Hmmm OK right.
      may i ask you, how do you know about these things regarding swat ?
      Are you from swat or someone from swat has told you all these as we can not find these things in books.
      i have been to almost every part of pashtunkhwa watan including some parts of afghanistan.No,i am not from swat but it is part of my research. oneday inshallah i will come to your village in swat we can chat in indetails .
      we learn more ahead in this thread and i invite all members to pls come with some knowledege about their tribes and contribute.
      did you know who wali swat was and his tribe?



      Support pashto language and greater pukhtoonkhwa.

      pa prady jaba khabarai pakhtun naka
      be laila bala soda kho majnon naka
      gero jabo kre lahoo pa khpal tahzeeb ki
      be pakhtu ba de bal hestsok rastoon naka
      hamza baba
      پَښتو کښې اُولېکئ
      Pashto Keyboard Online (Afghan) LEXILOGOS >>

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by emkhan View Post
        Yes true but "Yousafzai" is a word used by everyone residing in the yousafzai territory, the more specific word is Pure Pukhtuns.
        Yes i know Pure Pukhtuns never go for such lines.
        Anyhow, Brother i think we should not discuss this particular topic because some of the members would feel insecure and feel it descriminatory.
        we should go back to the topic
        ok,no problem.we continue on topic.i understand your point here.You asked for details therefore i respond.
        pashtun tribe to be continued



        Support pashto language and greater pukhtoonkhwa.

        pa prady jaba khabarai pakhtun naka
        be laila bala soda kho majnon naka
        gero jabo kre lahoo pa khpal tahzeeb ki
        be pakhtu ba de bal hestsok rastoon naka
        hamza baba
        پَښتو کښې اُولېکئ
        Pashto Keyboard Online (Afghan) LEXILOGOS >>

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by gadoonwal View Post
          i have been to almost every part of pashtunkhwa watan including some parts of afghanistan.No,i am not from swat but it is part of my research. oneday inshallah i will come to your village in swat we can chat in indetails .
          we learn more ahead in this thread and i invite all members to pls come with some knowledege about their tribes and contribute.
          did you know who wali swat was and his tribe?
          Yes you are welcomed. Locally my khel is working some work, we can discuss that some other time...
          Yes it is said that Wali swat was a gujjar and thats why the Khanans of swat like the Afzal khan lala plar who took assylem with the nawab of Dir, He did not like Wali swat plar to be the Wali but some khanans supported him like Khan Bahadur. Anyhow i appreciate your work on this very subject and looking forward for more to come from your side and enlighten us with the knowledge of our beautiful tribes

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by khushal View Post
            Some of things you guys say about class is foreign to me. I'm speculating here but since societies evolve from tribal to feudal. Maybe in the valleys the tribes that settled down over time evolved more into a feudalistic society. Maybe this is the reason that some sort of class and "khans" exist where a few people own most of the land and the rest are merely servants. My father told me this also exists in Jalalabad as well as swat and Mardan and I'm pretty sure it exist in other valleys as well.

            On another note its interesting that doubt's are raised about Toramana being Pashtun.
            Pashtuns dont adopt certain professions, so it were filled by people of non-pashtun origin. These are called karigars. Karigars along with damans and mullahs are called kamayas. They are present in every pashtun area of khyber pakhtunkhwa. As gadoonwal said these were original inhabitants of kp and were hindus.
            They speak pashto but they dont follow pashtunwali. They are not given roles in pashtun affairs like jirga and lashkar. Unlike pashtuns they are very non-violent .They live as hamsayas in villages and are mainly concentrated in cities and towns.
            Pashtuns dont marry with them and it becomes a permenant peghor for a pashtun if he/she marries with them. They are compensating this by working hard in getting education...nowadays many kamayas in my area are highly educated and are on superior jobs than pashtuns.
            I know about general behaviour and mindset of kamayas, toramana is like them.

            Comment


            • #66
              Burki

              The Burki (historically also known as Barak, Baraki, Barki, Berki, Birki of Baburnama, Braakee or Urmar) are a Pushtun tribe of South Waziristan, Pakistan, whose homeland is Kaniguram. The first Pushtun warrior/intellectual Pir Roshan, whose given name was Bayazid Khan, was a Baraki/Urmur/Burki who is popularly known by his admirers as Pir Roshan (the enlightened one) and as Pir Tarik (the one of darkness) by his detractors. In the 16th century, he wrote the first book in the language of the Pashtuns. He was fluent in Ormuri (his mother tongue), Pushtu, Arabic and Persian[1].

              Language and demographics

              Ormuri[2] is the first language of the people in Kaniguram; today, all are bilingual in the local Pashto dialect of Wazirwola. Most also can converse in Urdu and some in English. Burki are still found in Baraki Barak in Logar and outside Ghazni Afghanistan, however Pashto and Dari has replaced Ormuri language there. Baraki Barak, and especially Logar, were scenes of genocide and murder during the Russian/Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (1979–1989).[citation needed]
              History

              According to Montstuart Elphinstone in 1815 he[3] incorrectly describes the "Baraki" as a class of "Taujiks" in his seminal work "An Account of the Kingdom of Caubul," based on his travels in the early nineteenth century. The scholarly tendency of the day was to label anyone who spoke "Urmar" as Taujik, despite the fact that the Baraki also spoke Pashto and one of their kin, Bayazid Khan, wrote the first book in Pashto. Taujiks then and now do not speak/learn Pashto or practice "Pashtunwali" as they—the Barak/Urmar (anglicized to "Burki")—do. Furthermore, the Baraki/Urmar could not / did not speak Persian (or Dari), the languages of the Taujik and Farsiwan, except a few who were members of the Amir's court. The Baraki/Burki "homeland" of Kaniguram in the heart of the Pushtun core (i.e. where the Mahsud and Waziri tribes "do Pukhtunkhwa") only confirms their lineage. It is important to note that Elphinstone in his "travels" West to the land of the Afghauns and towards Caubul (Kabul) never made it past Peshawar and is unlikely to have come across any Baraki/Barak.
              Elphinstone in his "account" on page 315 writes: "The next class of Taujiks are the Burrukees who inhabit Logur and part of Boot Khauk... they differ from the other Taujiks in as much as they form a tribe under chiefs of their own, and have a high reputation as soldiers. They have separate lands and castles of their own and furnish a good many troops to the government, closely resemble the Afghauns in their manners and are more respected than any other Taujiks... their lands were once extensive; but their origin is uncertain; they pretend to be sprung from the Arabs, but others say they are descended from the Kurds or Coords."
              Captain Leech[4] is the first person who has given some detailed notes on the Barki Barak (Logar) dialect of the Ormuri language. He collected quite a few words and sentences and published them in "The Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal"[5] under the name of "A Vocabulary of the Baraki language". While introducing the tribe and its language, he says: "The Barkis are included in the general term of Parsiwan, or Tajak; they are original inhabitants of Yemen whence they were brought by Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni; they accompanied him in his invasion of India, and were pre-eminently instrumental in the abstraction of the gates of the temple of Somnath. There are two divisions of the tribe. The Barkis of Rajan in the province of Lohgad, who speak Persian, and the Barakis of Barak, a city near the former, who speak the language called Barki; at Kaniguram under Shah Malak who are independent. The Barakis of this place and of Barak alone speak the Baraki language. It is clear from Capt. Leech's "assessmnet" that he is mixing the Barakis up with the Baluchis, whose lineage does suggest a possible peninsula connection of some who came to the Baluchistan region in Mahmud of Ghaznavi's time. But the Baraki have been in the greater Afghanistan region much longer/prior to the 10th century.
              Henry Walter Bellew's book (1891)[6] "An Enquiry into the Ethnography of Afghanistan", Bayazid's people — currently referred to as "Burki" but who until the early twentieth century were known as Barak or Baraki—were found in large numbers during the Greek period in their present environs (p. 62). On page 8 of this seminal work, Bellew refers to the Baraki's origins as "mysterious" but not of Arab/Ansari descent. On page 62, he writes of the Baraki: "After the time of the Greek dominion, the Baraki increased greatly in numbers and influence, and acquired extensive possessions towards the Hindu Kush in the north and the Suleman range in the south, and eastward as far as the Indus. During the reign of Mahmud Ghaznavi (2 November 971 - 30 April 1030), the Baraki were an important tribe, and largely aided the Sultan in his military expeditions. The reputation then acquired as soldiers they still retain, and the Afghan monarchs always entertain a bodyguard composed exclusively of Baraki. . . . In Afghanistan though their true origin is not suspected, the Baraki are a distinct people. The Baraki pretend descent from the Arab invaders, but this is a conceit of their conversion to Islam. They are a fine, tall and active people, with fairer complexions than the generality of Afghans, and are held in consideration as a respectable people. They have no place in the Afghan genealogies by that name, being generally reckoned along with the Tajik population. Yet it is not altogether improbable that the present ruling tribe (Barakzai) of the Durrani/Abdali in Afghanistan is originally derived from the Baraki."[7]
              George Grierson has given a detailed account of the language in the "Memoirs of the Asiatic Society of Bengal" 1918 [9], along with history of the tribe and the language. This work has been revised by including more information on the subject and published in his well-Known "Linguistic Survey of India Vol. X" in 1921. According to him:
              "Ormuri is a West Iranian language, and its nearest relatives are the dialects of western Persia and Kurdish. Another interesting point is that Ormuri, although a West Iranian language, contains manifest evidence of contact with the Dardic languages whose present habitat is the hill country south of the Hindu Kush. At the present day these languages are being gradually superseded by Pashto, and are dying out in the face of their more powerful neighbour. Those of the Swat and Indus Kohistans are disappearing before our eyes. There is reason to believe that this has been going on for several centuries. In historic times they were once spoken as far south as the Tirah valley, where now the only language heard is Pashto, and the fact that Ormuri shows traces of them leads to the supposition that there were once speakers of a Dardic languages still further south in Waziristan and, perhaps, the Logar country before they were occupied by the Afghans."
              Even today there are still two opinions regarding the Burki's roots, one is that the Urmar/Burkis origins are Kurdish from Uromiyeh on Lake Urmia the capital city of Irans West Azerbaijan Province on the foot of the Caucasus. The name Urmai is supposed to be derived from Syriac, Ur, meaning "cradle," and mia, meaning "water" Hence, the name Urmia. Around the 10th Century this area was ruled by Daisam Al-Kurdi, who had a number of skirmishes with the Ghuz Tribes and eventually fell to the Ghaznavid Empire. Lake Urmia's second largest island, Kaboudi, is the burial place of Hulagu Khan, the grandson of Genghis Khan and the sacker of Baghdad.
              Today the Burkis speak Ormuri, but are also bilingual in the Waziri dialect of Pashto. Burki are still found in Baraki Barak in Logar and outside Ghazni Afghanistan. During the Russian/Soviet occupation, Baraki Barak and Logar were scenes of genocide and murder. Today, the Baraki/Urmar all go by the nomenclature of "Burki." The Burki today are all Sunni (Hanafi fiqh) Muslims[8]..
              Settlement in Kaniguram

              The Burki primarily inhabit Kaniguram, the most populous settlement in South Waziristan, at around 6700 feet above sea level. This has been their tribe's focal point for over 800 years. Kaniguram has historically been off limits to outsiders except for the Burki and, more recently, the Mahsuds. Common store fronts signs are "Burki knives" or "Burki pharmacy" and are indicative of their dominant position in Kaniguram despite being significantly outnumbered by Mahsuds. Relations between the Burki/Urmar and the Mahsud are as complex as they are intimate: they are generally on good terms except for occasional skirmishes/war between the two from time to time. Despite being an enclave within what has become Mahsud territory, the Urmar/Baraki/Burki have stubbornly retained their mother tongue/identity/traditions in Kaniguram. Kaniguram's layout is distinctive from other hamlets/settlements in the FATA in that the homes are adjacent or interconnected. Land in and around Kaniguram is exclusively in Burki, and to a lesser degree, Mahsud, ownership or control. They are considered as the armory of the Mahsuds due to their small arms cottage industry which, however, does not rival Darra Adam Khel's. Kaniguram's daggers once rivaled those of Damascus. In Kanigurram the Burkis are divided into two categories one Upper Kanigurram and the second is lowwer kanigurrnam. The khails of Lahore Burkis resemble the ones in upper kanigurram.
              Kaniguram is accessible from the north via the Razmak road and south from Wana on a narrow metalled road that is one of the few roads in South Waziristan. Access from this main "road" is limited to a suspension foot bridge across a wide ravine that separates Kaniguram from the main road and is easy to guard as behind it are mountains (Preghal and Jullundur) which limit access from the north. This foot bridge has, more often than not, been unusable due to sabotage, damage etc. The people of this settlement often have to climb down the steep ravine from the road during harsh winter months and then climb back up to the Kaniguram side. .
              Many of Kaniguram's Burki spend winters in second homes in Dera Ismail Khan and Tank, Pakistan, where some work at the airport, or as traders. They are very involved in Pakistan's trucking and construction industries based primarily out of Karachi and are enterprising businessmen and traders. The Burki Group of Companies and SK BURKI Bros are such companies.




              The Burki Diaspora

              The Burki also live in other parts of Pakistan and there are pockets in Logar and Ghazni provinces of Afghanistan. Some "khels" of the Burki settled in Jullundar, Punjab during the 17th and 18th centuries and some were famous horse breeders who traded Afghan horses down in the South Asian plains and returned home with vital goods. Those who settled in the Punjab did so in "bastis," essentially two or three close hamlets—like Basti Baba Khel, Basti Sheikh Darwish which were protected like fortresses with high walls and gun turrets within which tribal members exclusively resided. They purchased, and were also gifted by the Royal Court for martial services rendered, large tracts of lands outside of their hamlets which they farmed as they became sedentary. In 1947, the bastis were abandoned and the Burkis migrated en masse to Pakistan, some to their native region of Kuniguram with the majority, however, settling in Lahore and Rawalpindi.
              Like neighboring tribes in the FATA, the Baraki/Urmar/Burki continued to adhere to the belief that cohesion of the tribe required that marriage should be within the tribe only. Thus the Burki diaspora (in Punjab and elsewhere) also maintained ties to Kaniguram until 1947. Although many of the Burki of Punjab adopted Punjabi much to the disappointment of their Kanigruam brethren, some continued to speak Pushto at home (but not Urmari).
              Today, the Burki are also found in the Western countries, and are well educated and involved in professional fields like medicine, engineering and economics. Shahid Javed Burki a Rhodes Scholar — vice president at the World Bank and a former Finance Minister of Pakistan.


              Social characteristics of the Burki/Baraki

              The Burki are known in the FATA as being hot tempered, yet intelligent and as being excellent negotiators/peace makers by other Pashtun tribes in the FATA.
              Unlike the other tribes of South Waziristan, the Burki have traditionally placed a high premium on learning/education/knowledge. The Burki have the highest literacy rates in the FATA. Pir Roshan, born Bayazid Khan (1525-1581 or 1585), the first warrior/insurgent/intellectual to unite various Pushtun quams to rebel against the tyranny of Emperor Akbar, wrote the first book in Pashto in the 16th century. Girls of the tribe are encouraged to obtain an education when available and marriage was generally at a later age than was the norm amongst other tribes. Unlike the other tribes, the Baraki/Burki have never embraced the tradition of selling their daughters in marriage to other Pashtun tribes. Marriage generally for the Burki of both Kaniguram and elsewhere was only within the tribe. Marriage was generally between cousins, often first cousins. When the Baraki/Burki dispersed from Kaniguram, they continued to seek brides from the tribe and, until fairly recently, marrying a non-Burki was not an option. Marriage with another Pushtun was acceptable but not encouraged. This was related to inheritance and keeping the blood line pure.
              In terms of music and dance, the Attan is performed by the Burkis as in many of the different Pashtun tribes. Some styles of Attan portray themes of war while others portray celebration, especially for events such as marriage, engagements, family gatherings and also as a prelude to the arrival of spring.



              Notable Personalities

              Religion

              Pir Roshan (literal translation: old man/saint/elder of light) (Bayazid Khan) 1525-1581 Pushtun Warrior/Intellectual, founder Roshaniyya (Enlightenment) movement. Inaccurately referred to Bayazid ANSARI as well as founder of the Afghan illuminati. Descendants comprise the "Baba Khel" branch of the Burki Qaum (tribe



              Support pashto language and greater pukhtoonkhwa.

              pa prady jaba khabarai pakhtun naka
              be laila bala soda kho majnon naka
              gero jabo kre lahoo pa khpal tahzeeb ki
              be pakhtu ba de bal hestsok rastoon naka
              hamza baba
              پَښتو کښې اُولېکئ
              Pashto Keyboard Online (Afghan) LEXILOGOS >>

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Roshina View Post
                That many of them stick within their own circles even in the West is true for many, many of them here where I live as well. It can be so pathetic that they'll even refuse to attend the wedding of a Pukhtun family who belongs to a "lower" caste than they! I've seen this happening, and it was such a shame because one would hope and expect and think that since there aren't many Pukhtuns here, they'd support each other by sharing each other's happiness and miseries. But clearly, the happiness of someone who belongs to a lower caste than you isn't "true" happiness and doesn't need to be shared by the upper caste. It disgusts me. Or then they might be good for interacting, since there aren't enough of them here for us to pick and choose which ones to interact with, but they're certainly not worthy of having our daughters marry into them! Like, what the hell?

                But I've heard that during the recent Taliban era in Swat, this division didn't exist, and everyone cooperated with each other regardless of their caste. If you needed bread and your neighbor needed tomatoes, you didn't look at their caste; you simply looked at their needs and yours, and traded. I'm not sure if this cooperated managed to last long after conditions improved a wee bit.
                There are no lower caste pakhtuns or upper caste pakhtuns among us. It is more like pashtuns vs non-pashtuns thing. Like i said karigars, damans, mullahs , jolahs, gujars, awans etc are non-pashtuns.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by emkhan View Post
                  Yes you are welcomed. Locally my khel is working some work, we can discuss that some other time...
                  Yes it is said that Wali swat was a gujjar and thats why the Khanans of swat like the Afzal khan lala plar who took assylem with the nawab of Dir, He did not like Wali swat plar to be the Wali but some khanans supported him like Khan Bahadur. Anyhow i appreciate your work on this very subject and looking forward for more to come from your side and enlighten us with the knowledge of our beautiful tribes
                  thanks,i fully agree and that was the real reason khan lala,s family left swat.
                  The reason wali family was choosen cus of being religious AND as you know religion played a great role in swat not from now but historically.

                  Akhond darweza and his infuluence even stop the yousufzais of swat to support khoshal baba against mugals.But that is another long story,next time.



                  Support pashto language and greater pukhtoonkhwa.

                  pa prady jaba khabarai pakhtun naka
                  be laila bala soda kho majnon naka
                  gero jabo kre lahoo pa khpal tahzeeb ki
                  be pakhtu ba de bal hestsok rastoon naka
                  hamza baba
                  پَښتو کښې اُولېکئ
                  Pashto Keyboard Online (Afghan) LEXILOGOS >>

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I never knew about Kharoti, belonging to the Karlan origin. I thought they were Ghilzai? Also Khader Khel? Do you know anythng about them?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      burki,,,

                      imran khan, s mother the late shaukat khanum was also burki pashtun from kanigram.



                      Support pashto language and greater pukhtoonkhwa.

                      pa prady jaba khabarai pakhtun naka
                      be laila bala soda kho majnon naka
                      gero jabo kre lahoo pa khpal tahzeeb ki
                      be pakhtu ba de bal hestsok rastoon naka
                      hamza baba
                      پَښتو کښې اُولېکئ
                      Pashto Keyboard Online (Afghan) LEXILOGOS >>

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by gadoonwal View Post
                        thanks,i fully agree and that was the real reason khan lala,s family left swat.
                        The reason wali family was choosen cus of being religious AND as you know religion played a great role in swat not from now but historically.

                        Akhond darweza and his infuluence even stop the yousufzais of swat to support khoshal baba against mugals.But that is another long story,next time.
                        Yes and you may know about the Sandakay Baba who stopped the invaders coming from Dir and used to loot the people of Matta and that side so he fought against them and defeated them so badly that they never entered our swat.
                        and Afzal lala's family is still against and in one of his interview Afzal khan lala called him sandakay mullah though he was not, actually he was a sufi lol.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Any info about mayana tribe. There are many mayana families in lakki marwat and di khan. Where is their main abode?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Idiot View Post
                            I never knew about Kharoti, belonging to the Karlan origin. I thought they were Ghilzai? Also Khader Khel? Do you know anythng about them?
                            they are Ghilzai

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
                              they are Ghilzai
                              most historains support the Ghilzai theory but some not.
                              Like i said pashtun history is not 100% clear.For example our tribe(gadoons/jaduns) belong to the ,,gharghasht,,parni,kakar,naghar,dawi were four sons of Daney son of ,,gharghasht(son of qais baba).The gadoons are the decendants of parni(a brother of kakar) but then there is theory that we are part of kakar tribe which is not correct.They are our casuns but not ancesters.Kakar is big tribe and some historains include their casuns tribe into kakars.
                              idiot sb,,,it is ,,khadar khel not khader khel.Khadar khel is a branch of Kharoti tribe,thats all i know.
                              There is village in kohat in the name of ,,khaderkhel,,.



                              Support pashto language and greater pukhtoonkhwa.

                              pa prady jaba khabarai pakhtun naka
                              be laila bala soda kho majnon naka
                              gero jabo kre lahoo pa khpal tahzeeb ki
                              be pakhtu ba de bal hestsok rastoon naka
                              hamza baba
                              پَښتو کښې اُولېکئ
                              Pashto Keyboard Online (Afghan) LEXILOGOS >>

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by gadoonwal View Post
                                toramana,,zama zehan wy chi taaso pa asal pakhtun na ye,,
                                dir imkan lari chi taaso ,,paracha,,yani kasabgar ye,,,,,
                                da yousufzo pa seema ki dir ,,kasabyan/kamzat,,,yani ,,khoshi,,hum shta.
                                yousufzai dir pukhtaana aw pa pakhtu main halaq dey .
                                I am sure you are some ,,kasbi/khoshai,not yousufzai.
                                The kasabgars are hindoes and parachas,awan are in the same category.
                                They are low life people and pashtuns never marry them.
                                They are born to serve their pashtun master and some of them like you,,got a chance,,to start ,,chaplosi,,for westreners now.
                                kasabagars can start another thread to discuss their history.
                                Ask a swatai yousufzai he will tell you about what ,,parachas doing in their area.
                                Gadoonwala, I was just joking not attacking you in any way...But anyhow, as a rational person, my own character and achievements (together with that of my family) matter to me most. And if it were not for the moderating/benovolent exposure of some of my ancestors to the progressive environment of Lahore and Peshawar, I would still be the gun tottering member of my clan living in almost eternal primitivity (Remeber, tribalism is a sign of primitive society--- civilized societies tend to base their collective identity on their culture and political institutions not tribal affiliation).


                                Anyhow, primarily interested in knowledge, it is more logical (and prideful as well) for me to be part of the larger humanity (7 billions) than a handful of clueless people/lot that are the pawns/objects of history (due to their tribalism) for at least 200 hundred years and will be, as it seems, for at least a century to come.


                                Yara da dai Pukhtuntub na mai ham toba da aow Pukhtun nationalism na ham...
                                Last edited by Toramana; 04-24-2011, 02:02 AM.

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