Why are Ahmadis considered non-Muslims in Pakistan

[Mujib]

Further look to what Mujib posted and what is really the quote on those pages:

This is what Mujib posted:

This is the real quote:

He left out, or, where he got it from left out the initial part. That these are allegations. The quote I provided shows what Ahmadis really believe. That is why I aske Mujib wrora the question I did.

You can't be serious, brother. I took the quote directly from the book. And I left out the previous sentences of that paragraph because they don't concern the charge of kufr. Yes, they are allegations. And Mirza Mahmud Ahmad affirms the truth of the allegations, in the sentence directly after, on the next page, which you left out. He says, "That these beliefs have my full concurrence, I readily admit."

[T]he belief that all those so-called Muslims who have not entered into his Bai‘at formally, wherever they may be, are kuffar and outside the pale of Islam, even though they may not have heard the name of the Promised Messiah. That these beliefs have my full concurrence, I readily admit. (Truth about the Split, 70-71)

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Wrora, he is correcting the allegations as to why he believes someone is kafir.

Ahmadiyyat is not a new religion as per my study of it. They are following everything as per the Holy Quran.

The matter to be resolved is whether Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is or is not the Mahdi and the Messiah.

The only way to do this is to read the Quran.

Mujib wrora, by the looks of your posts, you seem to understand Islam pretty well. Let us solve this together. I am not going to read links to your scholars or any other scholars. Let us do this together here, using the Holy Quran and ahadith.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What do you say?

[Feroza_Banu]

What are you saying sister? When did I call you a kafir?

what r u saying? u think people r blind or stupid? i can clearly read what you have posted in that paragraph. it doesn't say anything different than what mujib wror posted.

you just posted a long paragraph that goes further into details about why i am a kafir for not believing in mirza.

the one thing i have found in common amongst all ahmadis are that they twist and play with words. u can never be clear cut because ur Imaan is flawed... brother!

if u need assistance in analyzing the paragraph then simply ask others who can... seems like u are not able to comprehend how clearly the quoted paragraph calls muslim ummah kafir for not believing in mirza.

Yes. Notice, sister, that the long passage MWMN quoted doesn't say anything different from what I quoted. It only attempts to justify the charge of kufr.

yes brother. i noticed. he thinks by rephrasing something the meaning chages...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear Aseer Jaan,

could you kindly re-phrase what you stated.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What is mind boggling is that the masses don't know why Ahmadis are declared kafir. They don't even know what Ahmadis believe.

This is what happens when you follow a scholar blindly, something which the Quran specifically warns against.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

what r u saying? u think people r blind or stupid? i can clearly read what you have posted in that paragraph. it doesn't say anything different than what mujib wror posted.

you just posted a long paragraph that goes further into details about why i am a kafir for not believing in mirza.

the one thing i have found in common amongst all ahmadis are that they twist and play with words. u can never be clear cut because ur Imaan is flawed... brother!

if u need assistance in analyzing the paragraph then simply ask others who can... seems like u are not able to comprehend how clearly the quoted paragraph calls muslim ummah kafir for not believing in mirza.



yes brother. i noticed. he thinks by rephrasing something the meaning chages...

Dear Feroza Banu, with all due respect, stick to the topic at hand and have taqwah in your approach. Please refrain from an ad hominem and Red Herring approach. It will make a discussion much more fruitful and enjoyable. If you are not able to, then please refrain in engaging in such issues.

I am pretty sure you have not read what I posted.

Dearest Mujib was stating that Ahmadis consider those who do not accept Ahmadiyyat are kafir, regardless whether that person has heard of Ahmadiyyat or not. This is what Mujib wrora posted:

the belief that all those so-called Muslims who have not entered into his Bai‘at formally, wherever they may be, are kuffar and outside the pale of Islam, even though they may not have heard the name of the Promised Messiahas.

This statement of his is something that the Muhammad Ali of the Lahoris have accused Ahmadis of. This statement is refuted by Ahmadis. Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad, the second Khalifa of Ahmadiyya, refutes this by saying that those who willfully reject the message are considered a kafir as per the Quran itself.

Yes, it is the Quran who declares this, not him.

He is objecting to the blanket statement that was made of Ahmadi beliefs. He is saying that no, it is not a blanket belief. It only refers to those who willfully reject a prophet.


That said, we Muslims belief that anyone who willfully rejects a prophet is a kafir. No ifs or buts about it. It is a Heavenly decree. This is in the Shariah of Islam. This is part of our 6 Articles of faith.

My dearest Mujib brother, used this clause within the Ahmadiyya belief system to consider them out of the fold of Islam and thus accuses them of creating a new religion.

However, what Mujib wrora missed, or he just chose not to respond to it when I inquired of him, is that he also believes that if anyone who rejects a prophet is considered a kafir, according to the Holy Quran.

This is where my argument comes in.

How can one consider that Ahmadiyyat is a new religion when they are following the Holy Quran with respect to who is and who is not a kafir? Ahmadis are clearly following the Holy Quran in their judgment. Therefore, they have not created a new religion. Hence, theoretically speaking they are correct in their analysis of who is and who is not a kafir.

What needs to be investigated now is whether or not Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the Mahdi and the Messiah. This will determine whether they are practically correct or not.

Further, I asked Mujib wrora whether he would accept the Holy Quran's confirmation on Hadhrat Isa (as) death or not? Or would he stick to his scholars and reject the what the Quran says?

So, please for Allah's sake, sister, acquire some taqwah, it will take you far. Allow Mujib wrora to defend himself. He is a big boy.

Reading your posts on this forum seems that you have a lot of questions and objections about Islam itself. So, please refrain from attacking something for which you yourself are guilty of.

Just a brotherly advice. I hope this is the last time you deal with an ad hominem and Red Herring approach. Deal with the issue at hand. Argue the crux of the matter.

That said, I want to discuss this topic at length with Mujib wrora. I have come to respect him. In the last few posts that we have exchanged, I find him very respectable and he himself is worthy of respect. I believe that he is knowledgeable.

I am still awaiting your response, Mujib Jana.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Why are they considered as non-Muslim to be exact.

Ahmadis believe that the Messiah has come. They believe that the Mahdi has come. They believe that the Messiah and the Mahdi is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. They believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a prophet.

[inqilab]

Ahmadis believe that the Messiah has come. They believe that the Mahdi has come. They believe that the Messiah and the Mahdi is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. They believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is a prophet.

Who are you trying to fool?

Ahmadis have two sects. One who literally believes he was a prophet. And the other who believes that he was a messiah and mahdi.

And both of them are kuffar. Their food is haram to eat. It is forbidden to marry any of them. They are not to be prayed upon when they die. They are not even people of qibla.

My questions are simple. And no ahmadi has ever answered these questions:

Where did they even get the concept of nabi, messeeh and mahdi from? Is it from Islam?

If it is from islam. Then why do they out right reject what islam has said regarding these three issues? Why do they substitute their own version?

Answer is simple. Because they are not muslims. They follow another religion.

Mirza was an indian from qadian. And not a descendant of Allahs messenger [s]

His mothers name was chiragh bibi and not jesus son of mariam as the Quran says! They reject this clear cut. yet you are claimign they follow the Quran. LOL

And you have ignored all my posts bc i have clearly shown where ghulam ahmad himself claimed to be a prophet. And that he was a reincarnation of Allahs Messenger [s].

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear brother, you lost me. Could you kindly rephrase everything.

You are all over the place.

May Allah reward you.

[Marwat]

Isnt Ahmadi the people whos mosque got burned in Lahore?

why did they do that? no innocent people should die.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

It is in the Law of Pakistan that Ahmadis are permitted to be ill treated.

Any Muslim in Pakistan can go to the police and say that he heard an Ahmadi saying "assalamu alaikum." That Ahmadi would automatically go to prison for 3 years.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I swear by Allah.

They are not allowed to say: "laa ilaaha ilallahu muhammadur rasulullah" otherwise they would go to prison for 3 years.

In Pakistan, if someone is having a bad day and they want to pick on a Ahmadi they can simple say that this Ahmadi said he is a Muslim and no questions would be asked and he would go to prison for 3 years.

In Pakistan, if an Ahmadi calls adhaan, the call for prayers, he would go to prison for 3 years.

This is the constitution of Pakistan.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

http://www.pakmission.ca/admin1/Emba...ION%20FORM.pdf

This is a link to the Pakistan passport application. Read the declaration section. It says:

DECLARATION (FOR MUSLIMS ONLY)

I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) the last of the prophets. I do not recognize any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any description what so ever after Muhammad (peace be upon him) or recognize such a claimant as prophet or religious reformer as a Muslim. I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani to be an imposter nabi and also consider his followers, whether belonging to the Lahori or Qadiani group to be non Muslims.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

They are so courageous. They don't care. They do everything Islamically. That is why they are always in hardship in Pakistan.