Why are Ahmadis considered non-Muslims in Pakistan

[eyeliner]

Because that Ahmadi guy claimed to be the next prophet and clearly that contradicts what our beloved prophet (saw) said. To deviate from the deen is one thing but to claim prophecy is another thing.Tobah!!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Actually, the problem is that Muslims don't understand why we are awaiting the Mahdi and the Messiah. If this is understood then we can resolve a lot of the issues and misunderstandings.

[Palwasha]

Because that Ahmadi guy claimed to be the next prophet and clearly that contradicts what our beloved prophet (saw) said. To deviate from the deen is one thing but to claim prophecy is another thing.Tobah!!

Exactly, it's a complete contradition.

Wow, I never knew Ahmadi Pashtuns even existed.

Over here in Britain, without any offence intended, it's the Kashmiri's who are notorious for believing in pir's and whatnot. And when reading into Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, I noticed healso migrated to Kashmir..

Bro, I sincerely do not mean to target you in anyway, I just wondered your thoughts on this:

Their thought and beliefs

1. Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as an Islamic daa’iyah (caller to Islam) so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be a mujaddid inspired by Allaah. Then he took a further step and claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Prophet Muhammad .

2. The Qadianis believe that Allaah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say.

3. The Qadiani believes that his god is English because he speaks to him in English.

4. The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Prophet Muhammad , but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets.

5. They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Qur’aan.

6. They say that there is no Qur’aan other than what the “Promised Messiah” (Ghulam Ahmad) brought, and no hadeeth except what is in accordance with his teachings, and no Prophet except under the leadership of Ghulam Ahmad.

7. They believe that their book was revealed. Its name is al-Kitaab al-Mubeen and it is different from the Holy Qur’aan.

8. They believe that they are followers of a new and independent religion and an independent Sharee’ah, and that the friends of Ghulam are like the Sahaabah.

9. They believe that Qadian is like Madeenah and Makkah, if not better than them, and that its land is sacred. It is their Qiblah and the place they make hajj to.

10. They called for the abolition of jihaad and blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority” as stated in the Qur’aan.

11. In their view every Muslim is a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiani is also a kaafir.

12. They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants.

From what i read, Gulam Ahmad was considred a non-believer, due to the following factors:

1)His claim to be a Prophet

2)His abolition of the duty of jihaad, to serve the interests of the colonialists.

3)His saying that people should no longer go on Hajj to Makkah, and his substitution of Qadian as the place of pilgrimage.
His anthropomorphism or likening Allaah to human beings.

4)His belief in the transmigration of souls and incarnation.

5)His attributing a son to Allaah and his claim to be the son of God.

6)His denying that Prophethood ended with Muhammad and his regarding the door of Prophethood to be open to “any Tom, **** or Harry”.

Ahmadi's also had ties with Israel, who opened centres and schools for them. =/ There's a lot i could post about the Ahmadi's, but I really don't wanna offend you, it's just their beliefs are completely beyond me.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dearest Guley khore,

would you be open to listen to my research with respect to Ahmadiyyat?

So far I have asked people the following questions and no is willing to step up to the plate. They rather simply quote items from non-Ahmadis:

1. If Hadhrat Isa (as) is declared passed away as per the Quran, then that means that there is more to the picture, correct? Does it give Mirza Ghulam Ahmad more credibility?
2. Is it correct that we Muslims believe that those who reject a prophet are a kafir?

If you are willing to discuss this matter, I would not mind. I find it that we Muslims lack a lot of self-study when it comes to religion. We only study what is the norm and what we have been brought up with.

There are many people who could careless what the Quran says, for example, the hijab, but are so ready to accuse Ahmadis of being kafir without having studied it themselves.

[Palwasha]

I would be more than happy to listen to your research, dear brother. However, you haven't commented on the beliefs I've posted of the Ahmadi's.

1. I don't see what that has to do with Gulam Ahmad, anyone could say the things he said. Do please elaborate if you can.

2.Yes, those who reject the Prophet's are considered kafir's, but so are those who claim to be Prophet's.

Ghulam Ahmad claims to be Prophet Muhammed.. (or just a prophet)?

Mirza Qadiani says: 'Muhammadur Rasoolullah wal lazeena m'ahoo, ashiddao 'ala alkuffare rohamao bainahum' in this revelation God has named me Mohammed and Messenger as well." (Roohani Khazain vol. 18 p.207)

The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), foretold this would happen.

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me." (Abu Dawood Vol. 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol. 2 p.45)

Allah also states in the Qur'an:

"O people ! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, He is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything." (Surah Al Ahzab 33.40)

It is not my place to deem anyone as a Kafir, I do not judge others, but what I've posted and what I say is relative to what I know of Ahmadi's, though my knowledge on the subject is not significant.

The thing's I've read which Mirza Qadiani have said are shocking. Again, I'm sorry if I offend you in any way, not my intention wror, walah. I do not wish to attack anyone's beliefs.

[DaNangarharZuwan]

MeemWawMeemNoon.

wrora.


what about those Muslims that sont know about ahmadis or have access to them. How can they find out about this.

do ahmadis follow sunnah of prophet M?

[Feroza_Banu]

I truly believe that you are sorry with your last statement.

Ahmadis believe that anyone who rejects a prophet willfully is a kafir. This is a Quranic guidance. We Muslims believe this also.

we muslims believe someone who rejects Prophet Mohammad's PBUH prophecy is a kafir... not Mirza 's...

now on the same note i would like to ask you a question, on what basis should muslim pledge to Mirza and accept his prophecy. how do you know he is a prophet and what evidence points out that he is not one of those who claimed prophethood falsly?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I would be more than happy to listen to your research, dear brother. However, you haven't commented on the beliefs I've posted of the Ahmadi's.

1. I don't see what that has to do with Gulam Ahmad, anyone could say the things he said. Do please elaborate if you can.

2.Yes, those who reject the Prophet's are considered kafir's, but so are those who claim to be Prophet's.

Ghulam Ahmad claims to be Prophet Muhammed.. (or just a prophet)?

Mirza Qadiani says: 'Muhammadur Rasoolullah wal lazeena m'ahoo, ashiddao 'ala alkuffare rohamao bainahum' in this revelation God has named me Mohammed and Messenger as well." (Roohani Khazain vol. 18 p.207)

The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), foretold this would happen.

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me." (Abu Dawood Vol. 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol. 2 p.45)

Allah also states in the Qur'an:

"O people ! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, He is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything." (Surah Al Ahzab 33.40)

It is not my place to deem anyone as a Kafir, I do not judge others, but what I've posted and what I say is relative to what I know of Ahmadi's, though my knowledge on the subject is not significant.

The thing's I've read which Mirza Qadiani have said are shocking. Again, I'm sorry if I offend you in any way, not my intention wror, walah. I do not wish to attack anyone's beliefs.

Dear and beloved sister,

1. "Khatamun Nabiyyeen" does not mean "last in the line of Prophets."
2. Have you ever wondered why the Prophet (saw) mentions of false prophets and limits their number to 30, if there is no prophets after him?

According to this verse of the Holy Quran prophets will continue to come:

يَا بَنِي آدَمَ إِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّنكُمْ يَقُصُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِي فَمَنِ اتَّقَى وَأَصْلَحَ فَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

[7:35]O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.

There is a hadith collected by Imam Suyuti (ra) in his Al-Durr Al-Manthur where Hadhrat Aishah (ra) mentions that we should call the Prophet (saw) Khatamun Nabiyyeen but that we should not say that there are no prophets after him.

Now one can either have conflicting ahadith or one can view those ahadith that mention there is no prophet after the Prophet (saw) in the light of the Holy Quran and try to reason what is the Prophet (saw) saying. Arabic is a very profound language and one word can have a vast array of meanings.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Can you further elaborate both?

Thank you MeemWawMeenNoon, Its a pleasure in engaging a discussion with you.

My sweetest brother,

what I am trying to say is that if Hadhrat Isa (as) is alive and will physically descend then the foundation of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad will fall apart and his mission would be shattered to pieces. However, if Hadhrat Isa (as) is passed away then it means that there is more to the picture.

What message this is explicitly rendering is that someone else would be appointed from the ummah. In fact, this is the hadith of our beloved Imam (saw) that the Messiah would be our imam from amongst ourselves.

Also, if Hadhrat Isa (as) has passed away, then how will this person know that he is the Messiah? He must receive a revelation. Further, as per the hadith in Sahih Muslim, the coming Messiah would be a prophet and would have companions. Therefore, the Messiah that would be told via a revelation that he is the Messiah would also be a prophet.

This would not contradict the Holy Quran, because Allah Ta'ala does mention of prophets that will appear in the future.

So, that leaves us with the easiest route to determining whether Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is right or wrong, and that is to determine whether Hadhrat Isa (as) is still alive or has passed away.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Beloved brother, you got me confused there. does it not mean the same thing?

What Hadhrat Aishah (ra) is trying to say is that Khatamun Nabiyyeen does not mean "last" prophet. "Khatam" means seal. This means that the message that Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) brought is the last message, because he is the "seal of prophets" meaning that he is the authority on prophets now. It means that if any prophet were to come after him that prophet would not cancel the message of the Quran.

That is why Hadhrat Suyuti (ra) brought this hadith meaning that if any prophet was to appear in the future he must be a Muslim and a follower of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

That is why I provided the verse from the Holy Quran to show what I mean and what the Quran believes of what "khatamun nabiyyeen" means.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

MeemWawMeemNoon.

wrora.


what about those Muslims that sont know about ahmadis or have access to them. How can they find out about this.

do ahmadis follow sunnah of prophet M?

That is why we Muslims are told by the Quran to preach. So, when you here of someone who has claimed to be the Messiah and Mahdi, you should do your research.

Ahmadis follow the sunnah of the Prophet (saw) to the T.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

we muslims believe someone who rejects Prophet Mohammad's PBUH prophecy is a kafir... not Mirza 's...

now on the same note i would like to ask you a question, on what basis should muslim pledge to Mirza and accept his prophecy. how do you know he is a prophet and what evidence points out that he is not one of those who claimed prophethood falsly?

Dearest and kindest sister,

what do you mean "rejects" the "prophecy" Hadhrat Muhammad (saw)?

If anyone rejects that Hadhrat Muhammad (saw)'s prophethood (is this what you mean?) then that person is a right out kafir.

Did you know that Mirzah Ghulam Ahmad was the first in the ummah to express his belief that Hadhat Isa (as), son of Mary of Nazareth, Palestine, has passes away? Nowadays, many open minded Muslim scholars who have delved into this topic have concluded that Hadhrat Isa (as), as per the Holy Quran, has passed away.

If this is true then we won't have a Messiah that will be descending rather, he will be appointed by Allah, which will make him a prophet. According to the Holy Quran, prophethood has not ceased and will never cease.

Once more thing, Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is mentioned by two names in the Holy Quran:

1. Muhammad
2. Ahmad

Did you know that he was never called Ahmad in his lifetime? Did you also know as per the Quranic verse in Surah Jumu'ah we will have a spiritual coming of the Prophet (saw).

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

But in modern terms seal means the end of it.

If I seal an envelope that means you can not open it again. How can someone just appear and say I am the next prophet wror jaana?

The Arabic meaning of "khatam" is a seal, a stamp, or a signet ring. He is the seal in the sense that it is only with his seal of approval that someone can attain prophethood, and this is what is mentioned in this verse:

وَمَن يُطِعِ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ وَحَسُنَ أُولَـئِكَ رَفِيقًا

[4:69]And who obeys God and the messenger, so these (are) with those who God blessed on them from the prophets and the always very truthful, and the witnessing/those killed in God's sake , and the correct/righteous, and those are a good helper/supporter/companion/friend.

Therefore, anyone who obeys Allah and the Prophet (saw) will attain the ranks of the Prophets, the Truthful, the Witnesses or Martyrs or the Righteous.

As such, "seal" does not mean to "seal an envelop" it means seal of approval. That said, if it means to seal an envelop then it also means that an old prophet cannot return either for the envelop has been sealed.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I posted above wror jaana, In case you do not see it.

My beloved brother, I posted an answer for you.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Ya but I still don't get it. Shouldnt it be in a sense that there is a seal "EXCEPT" Jesus who will obviously return?

Masha Allah! You caught on.

That is why I always argue that one should always use the Quran as the final testament.

It is the character of the Holy Quran to present the "exceptions" always. Since the Quran has not therefore, it means that he will not return. You see, my dearest brother, the Quran does not even mention of him going to the Heavens so how could it mention of him breaking the seal as per an exception?

In fact, the Quran categorically mentions him passing away.