Like flies around dung

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Ah, I see now.
You're trying to bully me out of this forum.

Huh? You should and can stay forever. You've rejuvenated the forum loool. Like I said Roachzai, not everything is about your bullied childhood where some dude with a beard paddled you resulting in your personality disturbance.

You're also trying to derail the conversation. Trying bury critique of Islam.

LOOOL. Spencer talk? Yeah right. As we saw in your Roman Manumission reference you are just sub-par on your ability to make a point and have no ability to discern whether the red herrings you launch are rooted in historical fact or not. Keep critiquing looool - that was a hilarious back and forth where the "informed secular militant atheist" ambled around like a nutjob with rejoinders of " I never said the Romans were ga ga ga good!"

Maybe you forgot, but your prophet is like one the biggest perverts in history.

LOOOOL. Oh Roachzai, just because you are a Computer Turtle able to bag a few morbidly obese Londoners with those Vodka lips of yours doesn't make everyone else the pevert that you are!

The man had a wet dream about a 6 year old girl and called it a prophecy.

Wow! Now you're into re-writing history into illegal child porno. You are devolving Soldat Roachov - now you are going from being a pseudo artistic gay roach into a perverted author of erotica that is illegal in most of the world looool

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[Sarbani]

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"Azad Pashtunistan" means I want "azadi" for the Pashtun regions from Pakistan. I support Loy Afghanistan (Afghanistan isn't non-existent) over an independent Pashtunistan. I don't care if that's unrealistic right now.

You don't see me saying every Pashtun that isn't a militant secularist can't be a Pashtun, although you are denying the ethnic identity of Pashtuns just because they don't believe in some Arabian conman's mythical tales. You really think that all Pashtuns have always been Muslim since their ethnogenesis? facepalm Also, you forget that a decent chunk of Pashtuns aren't even religious, but just Muslim by name.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

"Azad Pashtunistan" means I want "azadi" for the Pashtun regions from Pakistan. I support Loy Afghanistan (Afghanistan isn't non-existent) over an independent Pashtunistan. I don't care if that's unrealistic right now.

LOL. So you support layers of improbable and counter intuitive dreams as it applies to your sick fantasy... great... somehow that redeems you? Maybe you should rename your self "Loy Afghanistan >>> Azaaaad Pashtunistan after a secular militant inflicted holocaust via fifth column citizenry to ensure that Pashtuns should be banned from teaching Islam to their kids."


You don't see me saying every Pashtun that isn't a militant secularist can't be a Pashtun,

LOOOOL. This comedian hour huh? Because that's an idiotic comment that even **** Cheney, Hamid Karzai, and the now deceased music artist Prince would all laugh at. That's like a turd saying "You don't see me saying everyone who is not a turd (aka every Rose) isn't a flower." Think about that - hard. Use all the power in those two neurons that fire infrequently to understand that looool.

although you are denying the ethnic identity of Pashtuns just because they don't believe in some Arabian conman's mythical tales.

Keeping talking lunatic. Its like your best attempt to be as smart as George Carlin falls flat because people aren't laughing with you - they are laughing at you.

You really think that all Pashtuns have always been Muslim since their ethnogenesis? facepalm

LOOOOL. In every aspect of our recorded history, personae, personages, re-countable history, tribal history yeah absolutely. Whether it is the contrived history that came centuries before Pakistan or whatever excuse you want to use that created the Qais Rashid figure - the notion of our written and oral history has us interlaced with Islam. No Pashtun to date can link their ancestory to a pre-Islamic personage or lineage in our collective oral tradition.

Please, by all means, keep face palming yourself looool, do it harder and harder. Maybe the two neurons in the thash hadookaay saar will start to fire together with enough pressure force.

What we do know is that in your lineage a half breed roach low qaum crypto minority former commie suddenly turned secular democrat, murderer of his own people will spawn something that tries to call itself Pashtun but will be far far far from it


Also, you forget that a decent chunk of Pashtuns aren't even religious, but just Muslim by name.

LOL. You means the ones that would still tar and feather you when you said your drivel about Islam out in the maidan? Nice try... they'ed also remind you of their tendencies when you opened that slack jaw big mouth of yours.

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[Sarbani]

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Not teaching kids Islam is a secular holocaust? Lol, you Islamists are more paranoid than I originally thought.

Pashtuns did have a pre-Islamic history. Amir Suri, from the Suri tribe of Pashtuns and the founder of the Ghorid Dynasty, was a polytheist. The Sakazai got their name from the non-Muslim Sakas. Many Pashtun tribal names such as Orakzai, Abdali, Mangal, Afridi, etc. have non-Arabo-Muslim origins clearly pointing to a non-Muslim past. Just because you are ignorant of our non-Muslim past, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Bringing up an obviously mythical figure like Qais Rashid is just strawmanning.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Not teaching kids Islam is a secular holocaust?

Nice try militant atheist. The point was that in your freakshow state you envision it would be not permitted

Lol, you Islamists are more paranoid than I originally thought.

Uh, did you not or did you lodge complaints about how Muslims teach their kids Islam? Two brain cells firing alternatively seems to indicate the one storing your memory forgot to fire during when you wrote that line retard.

Pashtuns did have a pre-Islamic history. Amir Suri, from the Suri tribe of Pashtuns

LOOOOOOL. There is is... the ziiiiinger. What a dum-b shi-t you are. Do you even investigate the claims you make? A Ghurid being the progenitor of the Pashtun Suri?

The language of the Ghurids is subject to some controversy. What is known with certainty is that it was considerably different from the Persian used as literary language at the Ghaznavid court. Nevertheless, like the Samanids and Ghaznavids, the Ghurids were great patrons of Persian literature, poetry, and culture, and promoted these in their courts as their own. There is nothing to confirm the recent surmise (as claimed in the Paṭa Khazāna) that the Ghurids were Pashto-speaking,[18] and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of Ghor were originally Pashto-speaking.[13] Contemporary book writers refer to them as the "Persianized Ghurids"

http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/ghurid_sultanate

Additionally, he was a shansabani and not an iota of proof except the very very suspect Pata Khazana (rejected by all regional study scholars) provides the basis for this nationalist secular militant fabrication:

According to Pata Khazana, Amir Kror Sori was the son of a man named Amir Polad Suri who was the governor of Ghor.[2] Allegedly, he lived in the time of Abu Muslim Khorasani[2] and became the first poet of Pashto language.[3][4][5][6] None of this, however, is confirmed or supported by other historians.

http://central.gutenberg.org/article/whebn0023753484/amir%20kror%20suri

So once again, because you and three other scotch and whiskey addicts created a fabrication you somehow are an authority? LOOOOL.

and the founder of the Ghorid Dynasty, was a polytheist.

Ibid. LOOOL

The Sakazai got their name from the non-Muslim Sakas.

Another unsubstantiated nationalist secular militant assertion without any anthropological, script based, or contemporary solid source assertion. Keep them coming. I see that the bul-l shi-t is in diarrhea phase as it exits your pinhead. LOOL.

Many Pashtun tribal names such as Orakzai, Abdali, Mangal, Afridi, etc. have non-Arabo-Muslim origins clearly pointing to a non-Muslim past.

You cannot seriously be this retarded... The originator was Abdal was called Sheikh Arif... that was his title.

Just because you are ignorant of our non-Muslim past, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Ohhh you mean I am ignorant of the "fairy tales" you contrived to create your own supbar retarded religion? Damn you are so dumb man. This level of belief in a series of clearly debunked sources that even most nationalists would blush to use clearly points to some psychopathology. Get some help man. Many many people probably laugh at how dumb you sound behind your back with your Azaaaaaad Pashtunistan slogan that couples some non existent history with some psychopath vision for how your ideal Pashtun should be.

Bringing up an obviously mythical figure like Qais Rashid is just strawmanning.

Nice try. My quote is there for all to see. I never said he was anything but mythical but that all contemporary sources to the development of Pashtun history describe/create a history that does not deviate from monotheism. This means that the Pashtuns of that era would have even smoked your big Pinocchio nose off with a hard lathaa if they heard your retarded meanderings.

Next time bring something worth value.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Not teaching kids Islam is a secular holocaust? Lol, you Islamists are more paranoid than I originally thought.

Pashtuns did have a pre-Islamic history. Amir Suri, from the Suri tribe of Pashtuns and the founder of the Ghorid Dynasty, was a polytheist. The Sakazai got their name from the non-Muslim Sakas. Many Pashtun tribal names such as Orakzai, Abdali, Mangal, Afridi, etc. have non-Arabo-Muslim origins clearly pointing to a non-Muslim past. Just because you are ignorant of our non-Muslim past, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Bringing up an obviously mythical figure like Qais Rashid is just strawmanning.

Here is another one Azaaaaaaad Bullshi-tistan

http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/ghurid_sultanate

In the 19th century, some European scholars, such as Mountstuart Elphinstone, favoured the idea that the Ghurid dynasty relate to today's Pashtun people,[9][10][11] but this is generally rejected by modern scholarship, and, as explained by Morgenstierne in the Encyclopaedia of Islam, is for "various reasons very improbable".[12] Instead, the consensus in modern scholarship (incl. Morgenstierne, Bosworth, Dupree, Gibb, Ghirshman, Longworth Dames and others) holds that the dynasty was most likely of Tajik origin.[13][14][15] Bosworth further points out that the actual name of the Ghurid family, Āl-e Šansab (Persianized: Šansabānī), is the Arabic pronunciation of the originally Middle Persian name Wišnasp, perhaps hinting at a (Sassanian) Persian origin.[16]

This is great. Keep the red herrings coming so I can down them like clay pigeons and we have a repository showing everyone including your fifth column drunkard friends how dumb you and they are in every way.

How ironic... mocking "religious fairy tales" only to generate some low quality bizarro freak show substitutes that won't even survive 2 generations much less 1400 years.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Not teaching kids Islam is a secular holocaust? Lol, you Islamists are more paranoid than I originally thought.

Pashtuns did have a pre-Islamic history. Amir Suri, from the Suri tribe of Pashtuns and the founder of the Ghorid Dynasty, was a polytheist. The Sakazai got their name from the non-Muslim Sakas. Many Pashtun tribal names such as Orakzai, Abdali, Mangal, Afridi, etc. have non-Arabo-Muslim origins clearly pointing to a non-Muslim past. Just because you are ignorant of our non-Muslim past, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Bringing up an obviously mythical figure like Qais Rashid is just strawmanning.

Man this is fun. Lets go to an even HIGHER impact factor source.
Cambridge History of Iran Vol 5

...Attempts have been made to show that the Ghurids were Pashto speaking and that the earliest Pashto literature sprang from their Court Circle....

page 198

The SUPERB footnote:

See examples of allegedly Ghurid Pashto Poetry in MM Kaleem's section on Pashto literature in The Cultural Heritage of Pakistan ed SM Ikram and Sir Percival Spear (Karachi 1955) pp 145-6, 149. But cg G Morgenstierne "Afghan iii Pashto Literature, Encyclopedia of Islam 2nd Ed. The earliest authenticated Pashto literature comes, in fact, from the 17th early century

https://books.google.com/books?id=16yHq5v3QZAC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=G.+Morgenstierne+ghurid&source=bl&ots=1KhhbTXn_Y&sig=dc4mEzUB4EUTo5ZvYXr5vCdhwRg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqtv-WhKTMAhUFET4KHRrRAAMQ6AEILTAD#v=onepage&q=G.%20Morgenstierne%20ghurid&f=false

Soooo basically, you and the other drunk atheists created/ no wholesale fabricated a bunch of useless garbage and bul-lsh-it so as to attempt to decouple Pashtuns from their religion and their nature. The source lies in Pakistan as does the retarded poetry and pseudo history. Yet through it all, historians without skin in the game clearly state that the only authentic information and written literature we have is from the era of Mir Wais's father.

If you are this bad at creating pseudo political garbage, how in the hell are you going to use that thash hadukaay sar to create a nation state, much less Loy Afghanistan?

I have a recommendation, just stick to the dress up parties, Marxist rallies, and all that other retarded stuff you do currently because taking on more, as the above shows, is likely you attempting to box above your weight. I will have to say that Najib Ahmadzai may have been a lunatic and a psychopathic ape, but at least he was smart enough to not play this game of "invent" a history loooool. The spiritual worm laden apple (you) fell faaaaar from the tree (him)

[Damir9000]

As we saw in your Roman Manumission reference you are just sub-par on your ability to make a point and have no ability to discern whether the red herrings

As I said, Muhammad freeing slaves is nothing special. The Romans freed slaves too.
Nothing special.
But that was never the argument.

You also said he improved slave rights. Bravo, Muhammad.
But they were STILL slaves.

My argument was if Muhammad was holy prophet.
Why did he practice slavery & why didn't he abolish it?
You said because it was the thing at the time & people were dependent on it.

That excuse isn't a valid for a person who claimed to be a prophet of God.
Muhammad can split the Moon in two but he couldn't something more important like abolish Slavery.

How come non-Muslims countries could abolish slavery could but Muhammad couldn't?

[Damir9000]

LOOOOL. Oh Roachzai, just because you are a Computer Turtle able to bag a few morbidly obese Londoners with those Vodka lips of yours doesn't make everyone else the pevert that you are!

Wow! Now you're into re-writing history into illegal child porno. You are devolving Soldat Roachov - now you are going from being a pseudo artistic gay roach into a perverted author of erotica that is illegal in most of the world lo

I'm Canadian.

Rewriting history?
No, I am not but your Prophet loved to do it in his Quran.

Child Porno?
Yeah, that what your dirty Prophet did with Aisha.
What respectable man dreams about marrying a child?

Thanks for showing your troubled mind.
you should really cool down about this gay stuff.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Allah ne islye banaya hai, sirf tum Haramzadon ko khatam karne ke liye, simple as that.

Edited

[Sarbani]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]

Look at you denying ancient Pashtun history with that wall of Wikipedia spam, and letting the Tajiks claim our empire just because the Ghorids weren't Muslim, pathetic even by your standards. Suri is a well known Pashtun tribal name and are recorded as being the dynastic ruling family of the Ghorid Empire. Tajiks didn't exist back then, they're not even a real ethnic group, but Persianized East Iranians (which includes Pashtuns). Stop being so self-hating and trying to let them claim our empire.

As for the Sakazai's name having nothing to do with Sakas, read this post from [MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION]: http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...954#post783954

You still haven't answered my question on the origin of the tribal names Orakzai, Mangal, Afridi, etc. None of them are Arabo-Muslim origin.

Of course there were no writings in Pashto until the 1600s, that's because the Arabic Pashto script didn't exist before then. Prior to Islam, the non-Muslim Paktyans/Pakhta lived where Pashtuns currently live.

Nobody that wants to be taken seriously in an argument uses the Pata Khazana as a source. First you bring up Qais Abdur-Rashid and then that, shame on you.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

As I said, Muhammad freeing slaves is nothing special. The Romans freed slaves too.
Nothing special.
But that was never the argument.

No need to recycle a loss where you looked like a retard. Go back to the thread Roach. "freeing" a guy at 30 when his life expectancy is 38 is a joke... looool but I guess to a clown with a much more limited life expectancy its all the same

You also said he improved slave rights. Bravo, Muhammad.
But they were STILL slaves.

Ibid Roach.

My argument was if Muhammad was holy prophet.
Why did he practice slavery & why didn't he abolish it?
You said because it was the thing at the time & people were dependent on it.

That excuse isn't a valid for a person who claimed to be a prophet of God.
Muhammad can split the Moon in two but he couldn't something more important like abolish Slavery.

He didn't split the moon on his own accord. All miracles in Islamic theology are rendered by God, not man.

There is a tradition regarding the Kabah where the Prophet wanted to renovate parts of it but noted to his wife that his people were still superstitious and this prevented that action.

He also, contrary to what some would intuit, praised his latter day followers portending the fact that improvements to the human condition would occur over time.

How come non-Muslims countries could abolish slavery could but Muhammad couldn't?

Soldat Dumbeer, do you even think before you write? I thought Roaches were at least FUNCTIONALLY Intelligent insects. The US had to fight a major civil war that was the bloodiest on its soil to resolve that question and it still had great difficulty until Kennedy getting anything done to implement new laws.

God doesn't promise perfect outcomes with his messengers. We can see that from the death of John the Baptist, the stunted 2 year mission of Christ, etc.

Its an assinine argument to make that actually wouldn't jive with Islamic theology in the initial.

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[BarakzaiAbdali]

I'm Canadian.

Rewriting history?
No, I am not but your Prophet loved to do it in his Quran.

You certainly are re-writing your own history of the Roach life cycle.

Child Porno?

^Unfortunately thats your favorite genre

Yeah, that what your dirty Prophet did with Aisha.
What respectable man dreams about marrying a child?

This has been debated to completen ad nauseum with respect to the role of Khawlah Bint Hakim and Aisha's previous engagement.

We might ask what respectable Roach dreams of tagging a dude's bum and the answer would be you LOOOL.

Thanks for showing your troubled mind.

Nothing's troubling me Roach. Seems like a lot is troubling you though... getting paddled by a few bearded guys for being a retarded baby Roach all those years ago ought not make you so hot and bothered looool.

you should really cool down about this gay stuff.

Nah. You are helping that cause by demonstrating that its a behavior in the insect kingdom... male on male Roach action.

Keep em coming Dumbeer.

[Sarbani]

Barakzai, why did God tell Muhammad to have several wives/concubines and split the moon, but not free the slaves? It almost seems as if your rasulullah was just using Allah as an excuse to get away with doing whatever he wanted without getting questioned…

[BarakzaiAbdali]

@BarakzaiAbdali

Look at you denying ancient Pashtun history with that wall of Wikipedia\

LOOOOOOL. Yeah but the Cambridge History, linked to an actual text from that encyclopedia volumes is "wiki" (sarcasm)

The exact reference was found in:

Cambridge History of Iran Vol 5

spam, and letting the Tajiks claim our empire just because the Ghorids weren't Muslim, pathetic even by your standards.

Thats rich, coming from a guy with no single reference in a museaum of a manuscript piece of evidence. Keep the clown show running.

Suri is a well known Pashtun tribal name and are recorded as being the dynastic ruling family of the Ghorid Empire.

You're sooooo non evidence based. Reading your crap is like the equivalent of reading a non referenced tabloid rag. All of us have read the reference. There is literally 3 different running theories with even the nationalist Afghans like Hamid Alikuzai citing the most important one with a land basis here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=sH...0kakar&f=false

His grandfather Malik Ibrahim Suri is said to have died in Surezai near Peshawar in 1498 AD- a village of the settlers of the Barakzai (Kakar) tribe from Gramshair in those days and still referred to as Da Sher Shah Kalaay "Sher Shah's village by the locals

page 7 from a Concise History of Afghanistan - Central Asia and India Volume 10.

Tajiks didn't exist back then, they're not even a real ethnic group, but Persianized East Iranians (which includes Pashtuns). Stop being so self-hating and trying to let them claim our empire.

Honesty is not your suit commie and stupidity and cupidity are not mine. As I said, I have no desire to create a new religion with you called Stupidism that relies on fantasy thinking without any staying power.

As for the Sakazai's name having nothing to do with Sakas, read this post from @Afghanfootball: http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...954#post783954

@Afghanfootball, He is a respectful member who doesn't have the fascist anti Islam tendencies of you and I certainly will look at his link.

You still haven't answered my question on the origin of the tribal names Orakzai, Mangal, Afridi, etc. None of them are Arabo-Muslim origin.

You are too dense to get the argument. Here, let me simplify it. All of us, from Bill Clinton, to Tecumseh to Ahmad Shah Abdali have "pre-7th century" genetics that we get from somewhere. There is no doubt about this.

However, our situation as a people, due either to our script, local invasions, partially nomadic status, being conscripted into others armies, etc provides NO EXISTING MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE OF WHAT WE WERE BEFORE. We have some genetic studies now that tie us, in a common sense way to our locale and to some degree with contributions from surrounding peoples.

Therefore, when you spout off your BS you are unable to provide any anthropological evidence, manuscript evidence, architectural evidence etc. liking us to any specific person or personages.

For this reason, we are Pashtuns as we know ourselves, our codes, our recitable tribal forefathers (and we still even know where their adeeraay are) and there are ACTUAL manuscripts that people like Khushal Khans family have and ACTUAL diwan manuscripts in Kabul from Ahmad Shah Baba.

And our recent 500 or so years of memory is what has developed our psyche and our personae of our character and ideals as opposed to your malarchy and that BS coming out of your pinhead.

Of course there were no writings in Pashto until the 1600s, that's because the Arabic Pashto script didn't exist before then. Prior to Islam, the non-Muslim Paktyans/Pakhta lived where Pashtuns currently live.

LOOOL. So what? Even with those scripts in tow, there are NO phonetics that create a single Pashto sentence. Stick to being one of the 3 existing commies transformed into secular capitalistic democrats... you are better at that than creating fabrications and retarded pseudo identities.

Nobody that wants to be taken seriously in an argument uses the Pata Khazana as a source. First you bring up Qais Abdur-Rashid and then that, shame on you.

LOOOOL. You're still hung up on that? As I said, go back and read the fact that I stated it was apocrypha but that as a contemporary writing it EVIDENCES our desire to understand where we came from in relationship to being bashful in EVEN SUGGESTING a polytheistic or Zoroastrian past. Ahmad Shah Baba's biographers and other notables did not and do not have anything in their works linking us to these pre Islamic peoples or taking pride in attempting to do that as you low qaum crypto commies and fascists are trying to do.

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