why are afghan pashtuns now called kabuli?true pashtun are pakistan or afghan pashtun

[Pukhtoon]

I'm not talking about a country with one giant monolith of people, but if I was I could still give you plenty of examples such as England, Germany and other European countries where the white population is above 90% also look at Russia and many countries in Africa and you will find plenty of places with one giant monolith of people. however, you misinterpreted what we are saying, my point is not making Afghanistan a solely Pashtun inhabited place rather making Pashto and Pashtun culture the primary influence, I understand this is not possible because of Afghanistan being a shared country with two distinctly different cultures and languages equally taking a shared portion of a piece of land. Also, on the contrary I could say that I don't know (from the top of my head) any country that cannot decide which primary language and culture it wants to implement so it makes some 'united nations' within a single nation. The simple fact of the matter is when you ask a Persian from Afghanistan who's country is it, he'll say Persian, ask a Pashtun and he'll say Pashto, others will say both but the bottom line is there is no concrete answer.

As to the monolith of people, the reality is that a lot of the places you mentioned are currently not that or have only become that after inter-marrying and absorbing one culture into another. In Afghanistan, amongst Pashtonos specifically, they tend to stay to themselves generally speaking (which ironically is something many people on the board support). So because we have made a point of not intermarrying with other ethnic groups, at least not in mass, the other groups do not get swallowed into the larger Pashtoon identity to make the monoliths you see in other countries. So the result is having distinct peoples who have shared values due to interactions with one another but still are different. I also should mention that places like Africa specifically are not one monolith but rather comprised of even today many different peoples who consider themselves different peoples - outsiders typically lump them into one group just like they consider Arabs and Afghans as one race.

So since there is no mixing in numbers large enough to require the adoption of common languages, dialects, etc., your left with the neither here nor there scenario in Afghanistan but in Afghanistan Pashtoons make up a large chunk of the population and have historically held power so they are in a better position to not have the language drowned out as opposed to Pakistan but its still not ideal.

Another issue involving making Pashto a primary influence is that it has not had as rich a history and therefore foothold on classical literary works (probably the biggest vehicle to promotion of a language), Afghanistan is destitute and moneys are much better spent on other things, and finally and maybe most importantly is that Afghanistan's inhabitants generally aren't a lettered people, Pashtoon and non-Pashtoon alike, so how will you go to the rural Tajik or Uzbek areas who learn to speak only through parents and have no formal education and therefore no exposure to Pashtoons or Pashtoon language? In all of our major cities most everyone knows Pashto but if you want a mass acceptance of Pashto it won't happen until there is a more developed country.

To be honest, despite what people claim on this board, the Farsi speaking people of Afghanistan absolutely hate to be associated in any way with any other Iranian people and really had no issues with Pashtoons until the Civil War which started mass ethnic conflict. I think 30 years ago you could of had a better shot of establishing Pashto even more amongst non-Pashtoons in Afghanistan but with all the killing and violence and blaming of that on ethnic tensions, it would be a harder sell today.

[Pukhtoon]

Would this mean Afghan Pashtuns have lost their ghairat because they have been Persianized which in KP Pashtun minds equates with beghairati? or is it just one sided rules when it comes to beghairati?

If that's how you feel but, to be frank, if you look at Pashtoon history, poetry, books, etc. they have, to put it mildly, not held any of the Indic people in any high esteem at a level unmatched by any other ethnic group. They may have said negative things about certain groups, but in totality, the type of things that repulse a Pashtoon's sense of identity have been associated with one ethnic group. Therefore, this is why some Afghan Pashtoons dislike it as much as they do when a Pashtoon takes up arms for, adopts the culture of, or champions these people moreso then any other ethnic group.

Also, the general sentiment comes out this way because Pashtoon's don't rule Pakistan and never have, are being ruled by a people who they have never historically had much respect for, and defend them and mock Afghan Pashtoons for their sake - the type of comments you replied to come out more because they don't understand why Sarhadi Pashtoons with side with a foreign culture over the ones who they have blood relations with.

Most of this stuff is reactionary as most Afghan's still consider Sarhad as part of Afghanistan and Pashtoons in Sarhad as Afghans but the sentiment changed after the Afghan refugees saw so many instances of the Sarhadi Pashtoons siding with other people over them. After the experiences Afghan Pashtoons had in Sarhad, namely Peshawar, whose population has a great deal of affection and love for Punjabis, the Afghan Pashtoons felt a line had been drawn and the Pakistani Pashtoons had chosen Punjabis as their closer relations and so then the Afghan Pashtoons lump them (all Pakistanis, including Pashtoons) together as a result. Although this might not be fair to all, Pashtoons are an all or nothing people so you see comments like that and then the Pakistani Pashtoons doing the same with the Kabuli comments.

The feeling only gets exacerbated with the Urdu culture and infiltration in Sarhad, which being objective, is nowhere near anything in Afghanistan, even in Kabul. Also seeing the lack of respect Punjabi's show for Pashtoons and their culture and yet the chants of Pakistan Zindabad are still as loud as ever is something else most Pashtoons don't understand. Most of the insults etc. just come out because most Pashtoons and even non-Pashtoon Afghans don't understand why Pakistani Pashtoons would ever side with a Punjabi over them.

[ډګروال]

face the reality and do,nt use stuped language Mr Kabarwala.
Prove me wrong with solid proof.

prove you wrong?

i along with others have already exposed you and your lies but you are such a kadoowal beghairath that you keep on making new ones.
no one has time to continue with you and your gul agha tactics.

[ډګروال]

kabarwala,
The war in afghanistan is not rozi for us.Who feed us when there was no war in afghanistan.
Pashtunkhwa is much more richer then afghanistan.
It is you people eating in our land in millions and all of them proudly say ,,,i am ,,,kabalay.did we impose this name on you?.
Come and see the camps and streets of our cities full of you people.
Did we ever came to your side for the sake of bread?
your entire generation should be thankful to pashtuns of pashtunkhwa for shelters and so on.zaka kho halaq darta beneky wy khpala zaan ki sa zaay lary.chi pa kom taali ki dakagy pa hagay ki tashagy.ta razay aw mong ta pegorona kaway dawosa.
it is you run away from russains and then from ahamd shah masood.
All the kabali mahajars in pakistan are the loyal slave of isi and punjab.
It was pujab using your aid and you jahils serve their interests for few rupees.you fight for them in kashmeer for what?
chi staa pa shaan nasholata pukhtaana pa afghanistan ki wey khawray ba pakhtun yaw shey.

what you just wrote is utter non sens but seeing your trackrecord it is not surprising.

we have nothing to be thanlful to pakis such as you and no you did not feed or housed a single Afghan so stop boosting like a typical paki.
Thanks to Afghan refugees now you know a little bit about Pashto and pashto language.

you have and still are making money off Afghans and especially Pashtun blood.
look at this ghairati pukhtun such as you ,its Afghan refugees and Afghans in Afghanistan that pay for your meal.
lets not forget your naswarkhor police and their rashwathkhorey.


NATO Trucks Remain Stalled in Pakistan's Southern Port - YouTube

the survival of 60000 families depends on NATO supply.
Pakistan to reopen NATO supply route - YouTube

taso ekhpela da bel cha pa talay kay dodey khorey.

further i will leave your ridiculous comment for the readers to laugh about.

[Registerwal]

its completely false that Pashto is taking a back seat to Dari in Afghanistan. If Pashto is a regional language then so is Dari. Dari is spoken mostly in the north except for Kunduz and the Pashtuns in the north all speak pashto. Kabul and the west is mixed and the south and east are pure Pashto.

Quit the non sense.

Stop writing lies. Dari is dominating all medias, government positions, army, police. The link I provided give give a good image about what is going in Afghanistan. When 10years ago maybe 80% was the positon Dari claimed, today it is 95%. You are right that Dari is spoken by other ethnicities and Pashto is a local language but that is also the problem. Pashto is just a regional language. Dari is a regional language, but also an inter-ethnic language and a governmental language. This is the difference between Dari and Pashto. According to CIA only 1/3 speak Pashto today in all Afghanistan and 80% of Pashtuns can speak Dari as second language. It is even heart-breaking for me to see on facebook Pashtuns in their profiles writing in Dari and not in Pashto. I re-post it for you again http://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/...ari-and-pashto

[Kushan Prince]

dont ever compare Pashto to Dari

I never did.

[Registerwal]

As to the monolith of people, the reality is that a lot of the places you mentioned are currently not that or have only become that after inter-marrying and absorbing one culture into another. In Afghanistan, amongst Pashtonos specifically, they tend to stay to themselves generally speaking (which ironically is something many people on the board support). So because we have made a point of not intermarrying with other ethnic groups, at least not in mass, the other groups do not get swallowed into the larger Pashtoon identity to make the monoliths you see in other countries. So the result is having distinct peoples who have shared values due to interactions with one another but still are different. I also should mention that places like Africa specifically are not one monolith but rather comprised of even today many different peoples who consider themselves different peoples - outsiders typically lump them into one group just like they consider Arabs and Afghans as one race.

So since there is no mixing in numbers large enough to require the adoption of common languages, dialects, etc., your left with the neither here nor there scenario in Afghanistan but in Afghanistan Pashtoons make up a large chunk of the population and have historically held power so they are in a better position to not have the language drowned out as opposed to Pakistan but its still not ideal. Stop fooling people

Another issue involving making Pashto a primary influence is that it has not had as rich a history and therefore foothold on classical literary works (probably the biggest vehicle to promotion of a language), Afghanistan is destitute and moneys are much better spent on other things, and finally and maybe most importantly is that Afghanistan's inhabitants generally aren't a lettered people, Pashtoon and non-Pashtoon alike, so how will you go to the rural Tajik or Uzbek areas who learn to speak only through parents and have no formal education and therefore no exposure to Pashtoons or Pashtoon language? In all of our major cities most everyone knows Pashto but if you want a mass acceptance of Pashto it won't happen until there is a more developed country.

To be honest, despite what people claim on this board, the Farsi speaking people of Afghanistan absolutely hate to be associated in any way with any other Iranian people and really had no issues with Pashtoons until the Civil War which started mass ethnic conflict. I think 30 years ago you could of had a better shot of establishing Pashto even more amongst non-Pashtoons in Afghanistan but with all the killing and violence and blaming of that on ethnic tensions, it would be a harder sell today.

Where in Kabul, Hirat or Mazar and other cities specially in north like Baghlan where I hail people speak Pashto??????? Even in Pul-Khumri minority Tajokes made Dari to Baghlans official language and everyone speak it. only some deny Dari. If you go to Jalalabad and that is the only urbane region I know where the people at least can speak both language. Take a trip to Kabul and tell us after the trip where you heard any Pashto.

[Manzareh]

^ the information in that link do not seem accurate at all, 95% percent is Dari dominated? that is an EXTREME over exaggeration.

[Registerwal]

^ the information in that link do not seem accurate at all, 95% percent is Dari dominated? that is an EXTREME over exaggeration.

Turn Afghan TV and you see how not accurate this is. Visit Pashtun profiles on facebook and see what reality is. The page to the link is runned by a group of global Afghanistan experts like Gran Hewad, a Pashtoon from my town.

[Kushan Prince]

I don't hate Pakistan, I was criticizing the elites not the ordinary citizens in the previous post. Ordinary citizens are the same as any other place who just want to raise their families peacefully and I don't believe dividing is a practical long term solution, it would fail and rob people of something better. It is in the interest of all the common ordinary citizens of the whole Indian subcontinent with Afghanistan and central Asia Stans to come together and form one political and economic Union. This would benefit the ordinary citizens but would eliminate the current elites so the obstacles to the interest of the ordinary people are the elites in all those nations including Afghanistan.

Listen to this from 14:00 which explains the huge economic benefit to the average citizen in the region.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=y3LFTlDke_A

People like Karzai, Zardari, Keyani, Sharif and those strong men in the central Asia are enemies of their own people, they are stealing their own people's right for something better.

Don't lie, every Pashtun hates pakistan. It's a natural thing.

[Manzareh]

Turn Afghan TV and you see how not accurate this is. Visit Pashtun profiles on facebook and see what reality is. The page to the link is runned by a group of global Afghanistan experts like Gran Hewad, a Pashtoon from my town.

There's plenty of Pashto on Afghan TV, also in the media and radio I don't no what afghan media your watching or listening lol I would say Pashto and Dari have equal influence in Afghanistan, its a shared country - dari people cannot claim afghanistan as their country just as pashtuns can't claim it to be their country. Also every non pashtun afghan immigrant I have ever met speaks pashto or can atleast understand it. Be truthful, think with your mind not your emotions.

[Pukhtoon]

Stop writing lies. Dari is dominating all medias, government positions, army, police. The link I provided give give a good image about what is going in Afghanistan. When 10years ago maybe 80% was the positon Dari claimed, today it is 95%. You are right that Dari is spoken by other ethnicities and Pashto is a local language but that is also the problem. Pashto is just a regional language. Dari is a regional language, but also an inter-ethnic language and a governmental language. This is the difference between Dari and Pashto. According to CIA only 1/3 speak Pashto today in all Afghanistan and 80% of Pashtuns can speak Dari as second language. It is even heart-breaking for me to see on facebook Pashtuns in their profiles writing in Dari and not in Pashto. I re-post it for you again http://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/...ari-and-pashto

Honestly, your just making up numbers or whoever your getting these figures from is making them up - it is not 95% lol So in Pakita, Khost, Logar, Wardak, Kandahar, everyone is speaking Dari?lol Half of Kabul or more speaks Pashto and people speak Pashto in Mazar, Badakshan, Kunduz, and other non-Pashtoon areas. These figures are inaccurate and all government positions require fluency in Pashto, school is taught in Pashto in Pashto areas and taught as a subject in Farsi areas, all signs are in Pashto, all media is in Pashto, some 100% Pashto channels and other channels have half Dari, half Pashto, the national anthem is in Pashto, so all this stuff really is inaccurate and the situation of Urdu in Pakistan and Dari in Afghanistan are way different.

The reality of things is that Pashto or Pashtoons have not had much significance in Pakistan and the language and culture has suffered as a result - they have become more immersed in Urdu and Punjabi culture then Afghan Pashtoons are in Dari. This is not meant to ridicule anyone but it's the reality and will continue to be as such until Sarhad re-associates itself with Afghanistan so all of its cultural, financial, education, etc. ties will be with the other half of Pashtoons and to a country who gives Pashto some status. The other alternative is to completely break off as an independent province, but they would still lean on Pakistan in that scenario and the Urdu influence would still remain prevalent.

I understand if you have an issue with people saying all people from Sarhad speak Urdu but it's not good to distort the facts. The figures reported by websites like these are not accurate and don't reflect the current situation. They typically downplay Pashtoons as well as Pashto in Afghanistan for one reason or another that you can probably figure out on your own.

The unfortunate reality in Pakistan is that:

• Pashto was not even recognized as an official language in Pakistan without intense lobbying
• Schooling is not done in Pashto even in Sarhad until recently and only then in a few grades but never in any other province like Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, etc.
• Pashto is not a required language in government in Pakistan
• Pashto is not required to be in all government documents, signs, and otherwise in Pakistan
• Pashto is not required to share equal time with Urdu in Pakistani media
• Pashto is not a mandatory subject for non-Pashto speakers in Pakistan
• Pashto history and culture is not taught in Pakistani schools rather, Punjabi history
• You cannot go into Lahore, Islamabad and easily find Pashto speakers let alone non-Pashtoon Pashto speakers
• More or less every president, or otherwise important historical figure in Pakistan's history has been non-Pashtoon
• Pashtoon culture is mocked constantly in Pakistan and ironically, as evidenced in this thread, instead of reacting to that by pulling closer to Afghan Pashtoons, some end up joining Punjabis and turn their direction to using the same ridicule Punjabi's use against Pakistani Pashtoons as against Afghan Pashtoons
• Pashtoons are not a majority of the population in Pakistan

For the above reasons, Pashto language and culture (outside of the tribal areas of Pakistan where the reach of the above factors is less due to lack of development) has been permeated to a much larger degree and extent by Urdu in Pakistan then Dari has in Afghanistan. I don't mean this to ridicule or anything to that effect, but this is the reality of things. The invasiveness of Urdu and Urdu culture on Pakistani Pashtoons is not in the same stratosphere as Dari 's influence on Afghan Pashtoons.

Everything I mentioned in the above bulleted list is the opposite in Afghanistan and if your going to be objective about things, just looking at the above non-exhaustive list, the reality is that Pashto has better standing, exposure, and status in Afghanistan then Pakistan by a large degree. It's the reality of things right now and it's not due in small part to the fact that Afghanistan has been the historical country of the Pashtoons living alongside other ethnic groups and because of that history and its pre-existing establishment as a national language, Pashto will be more established by default. In contrast, Pakistan is a new country but being honest about its history, it really is just an annexation of Hindustan/India so since the history of the majority of its inhabitants have to do with Hindustani/Punjabi culture, its why their culture and language is as dominant as it is and as pervasive as it is on Pashto.

How to fix that is a debate for another thread but maybe it should start by accepting that your home, culture, and history is connected to Afghanistan first, that Sarhad is Afghanistan, not Pakistan, and you should have more brotherhood and respect for Pashtoons from Afghanistan, and consider them as your own as opposed to fighting for, belittling, and attempting to insult them to defend Punjabistan. When you insult Afghanistan you essentially insult yourself, your history, and your forefathers. You are currently connected to Pakistan, i.e., Loy Hindustan, which is unfortunate, but Afghans never recognize that border and maybe if the sentiment was shared by the people of Sarhad, unity would result as well as the strengthening of Pashtoon culture and language.

[Pukhtoon]

Where in Kabul, Hirat or Mazar and other cities specially in north like Baghlan where I hail people speak Pashto??????? Even in Pul-Khumri minority Tajokes made Dari to Baghlans official language and everyone speak it. only some deny Dari. If you go to Jalalabad and that is the only urbane region I know where the people at least can speak both language. Take a trip to Kabul and tell us after the trip where you heard any Pashto.

I know so many that do outside the rural areas - many Baghlani's I know speak Pashto with me especially ones who have finished school, gone to college, or have ever worked in government. There are many Pashtoons in those areas as well although not close to a majority but many. I know all about Kabul, the default language is Farsi but many speak Pashto, and not just a small minority. There are many Pashtoon villages in and around Kabul but obviously they know Farsi as well becuase so many Tajiks live there. Jalalabad also knows Farsi because they live next to Tajiks but they still speak fluent Pashto. It's not strange at all for someone to know Pashto in Kabul, everyone learns it in school anyways so they can get by - the ones that can't usually are from more rural areas.

[Pukhtoon]

There's plenty of Pashto on Afghan TV, also in the media and radio I don't no what afghan media your watching or listening lol I would say Pashto and Dari have equal influence in Afghanistan, its a shared country - dari people cannot claim afghanistan as their country just as pashtuns can't claim it to be their country. Also every non pashtun afghan immigrant I have ever met speaks pashto or can atleast understand it. Be truthful, think with your mind not your emotions.

This has been my experience as well - it might not be their mother tongue but there is even a joke amongst all Afghans, Pashtoon and non-Pashtoon, that a dead give away to someone being Afghan is if they tell you they speak 3 languages, i.e. inevitably Pashto, Dari, and Urdu (because of their time in Pakistan) or a 4th if they moved to the West. I think some people just want to say Pakistan and Afghanistan Pashtoons have been influenced in the same way by other cultures but it's not fair to paint in such broad strokes - it creates a completely inaccurate picture.

[Smarty]

Honestly, your just making up numbers or whoever your getting these figures from is making them up - it is not 95% lol So in Pakita, Khost, Logar, Wardak, Kandahar, everyone is speaking Dari?lol Half of Kabul or more speaks Pashto and people speak Pashto in Mazar, Badakshan, Kunduz, and other non-Pashtoon areas. These figures are inaccurate and all government positions require fluency in Pashto, school is taught in Pashto in Pashto areas and taught as a subject in Farsi areas, all signs are in Pashto, all media is in Pashto, some 100% Pashto channels and other channels have half Dari, half Pashto, the national anthem is in Pashto, so all this stuff really is inaccurate and the situation of Urdu in Pakistan and Dari in Afghanistan are way different. The reality of things is that Pashto or Pashtoons have not had much significance in Pakistan and the language and culture has suffered as a result - they have become more immersed in Urdu and Punjabi culture then Afghan Pashtoons are in Dari. This is not meant to ridicule anyone but it's the reality and will continue to be as such until Sarhad re-associates itself with Afghanistan so all of its cultural, financial, education, etc. ties will be with the other half of Pashtoons and to a country who gives Pashto some status. The other alternative is to completely break off as an independent province, but they would still lean on Pakistan in that scenario and the Urdu influence would still remain prevalent. I understand if you have an issue with people saying all people from Sarhad speak Urdu but it's not good to distort the facts. The figures reported by websites like these are not accurate and don't reflect the current situation. They typically downplay Pashtoons as well as Pashto in Afghanistan for one reason or another that you can probably figure out on your own. The unfortunate reality in Pakistan is that: Pashto was not even recognized as an official language in Pakistan without intense lobbyingSchooling is not done in Pashto even in Sarhad until recently and only then in a few grades but never in any other province like Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, etc.Pashto is not a required language in government in PakistanPashto is not required to be in all government documents, signs, and otherwise in PakistanPashto is not required to share equal time with Urdu in Pakistani mediaPashto is not a mandatory subject for non-Pashto speakers in PakistanPashto history and culture is not taught in Pakistani schools rather, Punjabi historyYou cannot go into Lahore, Islamabad and easily find Pashto speakers let alone non-Pashtoon Pashto speakersMore or less every president, or otherwise important historical figure in Pakistan's history has been non-PashtoonPashtoon culture is mocked constantly in Pakistan and ironically, as evidenced in this thread, instead of reacting to that by pulling closer to Afghan Pashtoons, some end up joining Punjabis and turn their direction to using the same ridicule Punjabi's use against Pakistani Pashtoons as against Afghan PashtoonsPashtoons are not a majority of the population in PakistanFor the above reasons, Pashto language and culture (outside of the tribal areas of Pakistan where the reach of the above factors is less due to lack of development) has been permeated to a much larger degree and extent by Urdu in Pakistan then Dari has in Afghanistan. I don't mean this to ridicule or anything to that effect, but this is the reality of things. The invasiveness of Urdu and Urdu culture on Pakistani Pashtoons is not in the same stratosphere as Dari 's influence on Afghan Pashtoons. Everything I mentioned in the above bulleted list is the opposite in Afghanistan and if your going to be objective about things, just looking at the above non-exhaustive list, the reality is that Pashto has better standing, exposure, and status in Afghanistan then Pakistan by a large degree. It's the reality of things right now and it's not due in small part to the fact that Afghanistan has been the historical country of the Pashtoons living alongside other ethnic groups and because of that history and its pre-existing establishment as a national language, Pashto will be more established by default. In contrast, Pakistan is a new country but being honest about its history, it really is just an annexation of Hindustan/India so since the history of the majority of its inhabitants have to do with Hindustani/Punjabi culture, its why their culture and language is as dominant as it is and as pervasive as it is on Pashto. How to fix that is a debate for another thread but maybe it should start by accepting that your home, culture, and history is connected to Afghanistan first, that Sarhad is Afghanistan, not Pakistan, and you should have more brotherhood and respect for Pashtoons from Afghanistan, and consider them as your own as opposed to fighting for, belittling, and attempting to insult them to defend Punjabistan. When you insult Afghanistan you essentially insult yourself, your history, and your forefathers. You are currently connected to Pakistan, i.e., Loy Hindustan, which is unfortunate, but Afghans never recognize that border and maybe if the sentiment was shared by the people of Sarhad, unity would result as well as the strengthening of Pashtoon culture and language.

what is sarhad?