why are afghan pashtuns now called kabuli?true pashtun are pakistan or afghan pashtun

[Manzareh]

Gadoonwal, you don't count Pashtuns from Swat to be Pashtun and you call Afghan Pashtuns derogatory names, so what kind of Pashtunistan do you want? you seem to be confused.

[Pukhtoon]

what is sarhad and sarhadi pashtun?...............you do not have even the decency to use proper name of khyber pakhtunkhwa.....

moreover Peshawaris themselves are not held in high esteem by rest of pakistani pakhtuns, we call them "kharian" and you dont expect pakhtunwali and values from kharian........it is interesting that you chose to ignore pashtuns from torghar to chaman and instead chose mixed city like peshawer as representative of pashtuns of pakistan.

People seem to jump the gun emotionally with so many of these posts without reading the whole thing. You said I chose to use Pehsawar as an example of Pakistani Pashtoons but this is what I said about that very issue:

"Also, most of these experiences of people are in Peshawar so the reflection is skewed because Peshawar, I really don't feel is an accurate representation of Sarhadi Pashtoons but its most Afghan Pashtoons exposure."

I didn't just chose it for my own benefit, I was highlighting the fact that the negative image of Pakistani Pashtoons people have is typically because our only exposure is to the ones in Peshawar - I even said it was skewed view but it's rightly or wrongly why have the thoughts and beliefs they do about them. Maybe explaining the difference more to those who have not been to a Pashtoon area in Pakistan outside Peshawar would help to remove this feeling rather then attacking one another in response.

Secondly, I did not know calling KPK Sarhad was offensive, people have called it Sarhad since time immemorial and I never have heard it used as a derogatory term. Many Pakistani Pashtoons say they are from Sarhad to me but if it offends you its not the end of the world, I can call it KPK. Do all Pakistani Pashtoons feel calling KPK Sarhad is insulting or is that just a minority view or your personal view?

And also, if you read my posts, there is really no difference in core etiquette and action as between the Pashtoons of Pakistan and Afghanistan as soon as you move away from Peshawar. Frankly, the differences get less and less the farther away you get from it. Even though Siwat is so close to Peshawar, it is an absolute 100% night and day difference from Peshawar. All I have heard out of their mouths is that lar aw bar yaw Pukhtoon, Afghanistan is our original country, we are not Pakistani, we love all of our Pukhtoon brothers and they always talk so nicely and nostalgically about the times when we were in one country. My first exposure to Pakistani Pashtoons were Siwats from Siwat, not those who have lived in Peshawar for generations, and when I assumed all were like them and was very shocked when I met some of the ones from Peshawar.

Even in Quetta I have never heard any bay ayzateih from its people against any Pashtoons or even non-Afghan Pashtoons - they treat people with much more respect and follow Pashtoon etiquette with guests and such much closer. Occasionally you hear some untrue stereotypes being labeled on some Afghan Pashtoons but you really can't blame them for a lapse or two given the absolute bombardment of propaganda against Afghan Pashtoons from the Pakistani government. It also goes both ways to so its not as though the Afghan Pashtoons are innocent on this issue.

So, just to summarize, I never have said anything questioning the Pashtoons of the tribal areas of Pakistan or have never intended as much or really anywhere with distance from Peshawar. Peshawar itself also has many good individuals but they have unfortunately been influenced to a larger degree by the propaganda against Afghan Pashtoons and Afghans generally by the Pakistani government.

[Pukhtoon]

I am muslim and have great sympathey for all human biengs regardless of their race,religion and colour.I know my duties as a muslim and pashtuns.
I helped pashtuns of afghanistan in pakistan as much as i can.I do,nt need to go to the details.Once again you call us begerath while you yourself is far worst then that.Come and see the gerath and namoos of afghans living in hayat abad and islam abad wich i can not write here and they rich and well.
I strongly condem the police in pashtunkhwa of their treatments of afghans but remember they are bad to everyone not just to afghans.
We are your brothers when you lives in our land but if we cross into your side we become pakistanis nothing els.
What kind of brotherhood is this?
This is one sided story.

I saw that now and just had to comment that to be honest, I have never seen or heard of that ever happening on the Afghan side but it has happened 1000's of times in Peshawar. When there is a fight and the Peshawari's need help, they say to the Afghans come on, we are all one, help us. But when the opposite happens, the Peshawaris suddenly become Pakistani and are nowhere to be found.

And like I said earlier, you do need to understand that there is a war going on in Afghanistan, where many blame Pakistani intervention, and many of the people across the border working in the army, police, border crossings etc. are non-Pashtoon. Moreover, they typically can tell by a persons' accent that they are from Peshawar and they all remember the treatment they received in Peshawar, all the Pakistan zindabad chants by the Peshawaris, and making fun of and mocking of Afghan Pashtoons and as a result feel you have accepted Pakistan and Punjabis as your brothers, not us Afghan Pashtoons so they consider you as different. They feel you consider us brothers when it is convenient and because people have a tendency to generalize, even though you personally may not hold those beliefs, they lump you in with the general population. The experience of Afghan Pashtoons in Peshawar is of a much larger sample data than Pakistani Pashtoons in Afghanistan because really what reason do they have for coming into Afghanistan - undeveloped, a war, lack of jobs, etc. so I feel your encounters are probably isolated relatively speaking.

[Smarty]

People seem to jump the gun emotionally with so many of these posts without reading the whole thing. You said I chose to use Pehsawar as an example of Pakistani Pashtoons but this is what I said about that very issue:

"Also, most of these experiences of people are in Peshawar so the reflection is skewed because Peshawar, I really don't feel is an accurate representation of Sarhadi Pashtoons but its most Afghan Pashtoons exposure."

I didn't just chose it for my own benefit, I was highlighting the fact that the negative image of Pakistani Pashtoons people have is typically because our only exposure is to the ones in Peshawar - I even said it was skewed view but it's rightly or wrongly why have the thoughts and beliefs they do about them. Maybe explaining the difference more to those who have not been to a Pashtoon area in Pakistan outside Peshawar would help to remove this feeling rather then attacking one another in response.

Secondly, I did not know calling KPK Sarhad was offensive, people have called it Sarhad since time immemorial and I never have heard it used as a derogatory term. Many Pakistani Pashtoons say they are from Sarhad to me but if it offends you its not the end of the world, I can call it KPK. Do all Pakistani Pashtoons feel calling KPK Sarhad is insulting or is that just a minority view or your personal view?

And also, if you read my posts, there is really no difference in core etiquette and action as between the Pashtoons of Pakistan and Afghanistan as soon as you move away from Peshawar. Frankly, the differences get less and less the farther away you get from it. Even though Siwat is so close to Peshawar, it is an absolute 100% night and day difference from Peshawar. All I have heard out of their mouths is that lar aw bar yaw Pukhtoon, Afghanistan is our original country, we are not Pakistani, we love all of our Pukhtoon brothers and they always talk so nicely and nostalgically about the times when we were in one country. My first exposure to Pakistani Pashtoons were Siwats from Siwat, not those who have lived in Peshawar for generations, and when I assumed all were like them and was very shocked when I met some of the ones from Peshawar.

Even in Quetta I have never heard any bay ayzateih from its people against any Pashtoons or even non-Afghan Pashtoons - they treat people with much more respect and follow Pashtoon etiquette with guests and such much closer. Occasionally you hear some untrue stereotypes being labeled on some Afghan Pashtoons but you really can't blame them for a lapse or two given the absolute bombardment of propaganda against Afghan Pashtoons from the Pakistani government. It also goes both ways to so its not as though the Afghan Pashtoons are innocent on this issue.

So, just to summarize, I never have said anything questioning the Pashtoons of the tribal areas of Pakistan or have never intended as much or really anywhere with distance from Peshawar. Peshawar itself also has many good individuals but they have unfortunately been influenced to a larger degree by the propaganda against Afghan Pashtoons and Afghans generally by the Pakistani government.

You still insist on calling it sarhad, i am disappointed in you. NWFP has been renamed and learn to call it khyber pakhtunkhwa........

From your posts one can tell that you are mocking us by using name of sarhadis......punjabis dont call us sarhadis now neither they use sarhad for kpk yet our afghan brother insist on using sarhad....

[Pukhtoon]

You still insist on calling it sarhad, i am disappointed in you. NWFP has been renamed and learn to call it khyber pakhtunkhwa........

From your posts one can tell that you are mocking us by using name of sarhadis......punjabis dont call us sarhadis now neither they use sarhad for kpk yet our afghan brother insist on using sarhad....

What are you talking about? Did you read my post? I said if it offends you I will not call it Sarhad and I didn't call it Sarhad the rest of the post except when I asked if it was personally or generally insulting to call it that. I just asked if all people from KPK will get offended if you call it Sarhad, people from there have called it that to me in the past so I didn't understand why it upset you. Here is the quote:

"Secondly, I did not know calling KPK Sarhad was offensive, people have called it Sarhad since time immemorial and I never have heard it used as a derogatory term. Many Pakistani Pashtoons say they are from Sarhad to me but if it offends you its not the end of the world, I can call it KPK. Do all Pakistani Pashtoons feel calling KPK Sarhad is insulting or is that just a minority view or your personal view? "

Again, please re-read my post. I said if it is offensive I will call it Khyber Pukhtoonkhwa (KPK) but just asked if all of you get insulted by it or just some. If you re-read my original post you will see I didn't do as you say and I agreed with most of what you said and was complimentary to about all of KPK. Khoday day mal sah wrorah.

[Smarty]

What are you talking about? Did you read my post? I said if it offends you I will not call it Sarhad and I didn't call it Sarhad the rest of the post except when I asked if it was personally or generally insulting to call it that. I just asked if all people from KPK will get offended if you call it Sarhad, people from there have called it that to me in the past so I didn't understand why it upset you. Here is the quote: "Secondly, I did not know calling KPK Sarhad was offensive, people have called it Sarhad since time immemorial and I never have heard it used as a derogatory term. Many Pakistani Pashtoons say they are from Sarhad to me but if it offends you its not the end of the world, I can call it KPK. Do all Pakistani Pashtoons feel calling KPK Sarhad is insulting or is that just a minority view or your personal view? " Again, please re-read my post. I said if it is offensive I will call it Khyber Pukhtoonkhwa (KPK) but just asked if all of you get insulted by it or just some. If you re-read my original post you will see I didn't do as you say and I agreed with most of what you said and was complimentary to about all of KPK. Khoday day mal sah wrorah.

Things have changed, start calling it khyber pakhtunkhwa. I also used to call it NWFP or sarhad before renaming. Its not about being insulting or derogatory, its weird that an afghan is still calling it sarhad in 2013...tell me what is your motive of calling kpk sarhad and its people sarhadis?

[Pukhtoon]

Things have changed, start calling it khyber pakhtunkhwa. I also used to call it NWFP or sarhad before renaming. Its not about being insulting or derogatory, its weird that an afghan is still calling it sarhad in 2013...tell me what is your motive of calling kpk sarhad and its people sarhadis?

Wrorah, to be honest, you are hyper-sensitive and I have explained myself more then necessary. I have no ulterior motive, if you wish to fancy those ideas its your perogative but I will not continue to explain myself further. I call it NWFP, Sarhad, or Khyber Pukhtunkhwa, whichever I feel like because they all denote the same area and people and those words are still commonly used by many including people who live in Khyber Pakhtunkhwaa. I haven't said anything insulting although you implied as such by saying I don't have the decency to call it Khyber Pakhtunkhwaa - a comment like that led me to assume you were offended.

If you read my posts I have been objective, have not insulted anyone generally or personally, and fail to understand why you are so sensitive about this issue. Maybe someone has called you Sarhadi in the past as an insult and that's why your so sensitive about this or maybe your just a sensitive person, I truly don't know but you need to take people's comments at their face value and stop reading into things so much. If you read the rest of the context of my post I don't know where you could infer I meant anything I said in a condescending manner or as a back-handed compliment. We are talking about a whole area of Khyber Pakhtunkhwaa, its not normal to call someone from there Khyber PakhtunkhwaaI, Sarhadi sounds more natural so maybe it's why I said it. Who knows but you really need to relax a little and maybe focus your energy on some of the people who kept insulting you rather then someone who hasn't.

This is the third post about something that is not worth this much time so Insha'Allah I will attempt to make it my last on this issue. I would suggest you do the same. Khoday Pa'Amaan.

[gadoonwal]

Gadoonwal, you don't count Pashtuns from Swat to be Pashtun and you call Afghan Pashtuns derogatory names, so what kind of Pashtunistan do you want? you seem to be confused.

I know the history of swat,in fact every corner of that land.
I do,nt have the authority who is who.It is you and many others did,nt get my point.Swat is the home of three major tribes yousufzais,kohistanis and gujars.The main language is pashtu followed by gujri and torwali etc.
That is the short story.I am not here to count bad apple always we should pick up the good one too.I critisized pashtuns for their bad actions no matter which area.Swat is part of pashtunkhwa or stan and will be end of the story,no need to discuss that anymore here.

Now to afghanistan.
The afghan-pashtuns must stop this double standered.They are abusing us everywhere on this forum paki-pashtun this and that while they do,nt give up their love for farsi.They are our brothers when they come to our land but we become paksitanyan to visit afghanistan.If they truley rule afghanistan there should,nt be any visa for pashtuns like jews to isreal.
If we are part of afghanistan then why i need visa to travel to my motherland?

what is the differance between pakistan and present afghanistan?
Both are corrupt
Both are multi-national
Both are ruled by non-pashtuns(if you think karzai is pashtun then gulam isaak was also pashtun so should we pakistan pashtunistan)
Both coutnries look down up on real pashtuns and their culture.
In both countries you must learn dari or urdu to get job.
The tajik impoed their language on them ,,,aw paigorona mung tha kawee.
The tajik called them ,,dumdar,dalkhor and spagan.dumdar mean ,,boyan,,smelly.

My view is light and clear.
pashtu must be the one and only officail,national language of pashtun country (minorities can speak their language but must learn pashtu).
High respect for pashtun history,lanuage,culture and heroes.
No persain or urdu influence in pashtun country.
afghan-pashtun say pashtu zamong yaw starga dah aw farsi mu bala.
I heard this from many even their leaders.If afghanistan mean pashtunistan then why not change that name to pashtunistan then?
da tol darog dey.
Sorry we will never ever be a part of such country.
If they are ready to stop their support for parsibans and stop supporting parsi then we should join them but that seems unlikely.Pashtuns will kill eachother for others.That is their history.
parsibans and punjabis will push them against eachother.So why not fight for your own pashtun identity .
In that case no one can play blame game.
Like kurd we also have no country.
we want pashtun identity .

[Kushan Prince]

I know the history of swat,in fact every corner of that land.
I do,nt have the authority who is who.It is you and many others did,nt get my point.Swat is the home of three major tribes yousufzais,kohistanis and gujars.The main language is pashtu followed by gujri and torwali etc.
That is the short story.I am not here to count bad apple always we should pick up the good one too.I critisized pashtuns for their bad actions no matter which area.Swat is part of pashtunkhwa or stan and will be end of the story,no need to discuss that anymore here.

Now to afghanistan.
The afghan-pashtuns must stop this double standered.They are abusing us everywhere on this forum paki-pashtun this and that while they do,nt give up their love for farsi.They are our brothers when they come to our land but we become paksitanyan to visit afghanistan.If they truley rule afghanistan there should,nt be any visa for pashtuns like jews to isreal.
If we are part of afghanistan then why i need visa to travel to my motherland?

what is the differance between pakistan and present afghanistan?
Both are corrupt
Both are multi-national
Both are ruled by non-pashtuns(if you think karzai is pashtun then gulam isaak was also pashtun so should we pakistan pashtunistan)
Both coutnries look down up on real pashtuns and their culture.
In both countries you must learn dari or urdu to get job.
The tajik impoed their language on them ,,,aw paigorona mung tha kawee.
The tajik called them ,,dumdar,dalkhor and spagan.dumdar mean ,,boyan,,smelly.

My view is light and clear.
pashtu must be the one and only officail,national language of pashtun country (minorities can speak their language but must learn pashtu).
High respect for pashtun history,lanuage,culture and heroes.
No persain or urdu influence in pashtun country.
afghan-pashtun say pashtu zamong yaw starga dah aw farsi mu bala.
I heard this from many even their leaders.If afghanistan mean pashtunistan then why not change that name to pashtunistan then?
da tol darog dey.
Sorry we will never ever be a part of such country.
If they are ready to stop their support for parsibans and stop supporting parsi then we should join them but that seems unlikely.Pashtuns will kill eachother for others.That is their history.
parsibans and punjabis will push them against eachother.So why not fight for your own pashtun identity .
In that case no one can play blame game.
Like kurd we also have no country.
we want pashtun identity .

Agree with you on all points but why rename Afghanistan? Pashtuns on both side of the border have called themselves afghan and called our country Afghanistan. Pashtunistan was never supposed to be the name of Afghanistan, it was refereed to the region of kpk. The same thing can be said about pashtuns in pakistan, why a lot of them are so patriotic of pakistan and kiss the feet of punjabis. However we have to put our differences aside and realize that borders can't separate blood. In case you did't know pashto is now required to be learned by every citizen of Afghanistan to get a job. Things were not like before.

[rednwhite99]

People seem to jump the gun emotionally with so many of these posts without reading the whole thing. You said I chose to use Pehsawar as an example of Pakistani Pashtoons but this is what I said about that very issue:

"Also, most of these experiences of people are in Peshawar so the reflection is skewed because Peshawar, I really don't feel is an accurate representation of Sarhadi Pashtoons but its most Afghan Pashtoons exposure."

I didn't just chose it for my own benefit, I was highlighting the fact that the negative image of Pakistani Pashtoons people have is typically because our only exposure is to the ones in Peshawar - I even said it was skewed view but it's rightly or wrongly why have the thoughts and beliefs they do about them. Maybe explaining the difference more to those who have not been to a Pashtoon area in Pakistan outside Peshawar would help to remove this feeling rather then attacking one another in response.

Secondly, I did not know calling KPK Sarhad was offensive, people have called it Sarhad since time immemorial and I never have heard it used as a derogatory term. Many Pakistani Pashtoons say they are from Sarhad to me but if it offends you its not the end of the world, I can call it KPK. Do all Pakistani Pashtoons feel calling KPK Sarhad is insulting or is that just a minority view or your personal view?

And also, if you read my posts, there is really no difference in core etiquette and action as between the Pashtoons of Pakistan and Afghanistan as soon as you move away from Peshawar. Frankly, the differences get less and less the farther away you get from it. Even though Siwat is so close to Peshawar, it is an absolute 100% night and day difference from Peshawar. All I have heard out of their mouths is that lar aw bar yaw Pukhtoon, Afghanistan is our original country, we are not Pakistani, we love all of our Pukhtoon brothers and they always talk so nicely and nostalgically about the times when we were in one country. My first exposure to Pakistani Pashtoons were Siwats from Siwat, not those who have lived in Peshawar for generations, and when I assumed all were like them and was very shocked when I met some of the ones from Peshawar.

Even in Quetta I have never heard any bay ayzateih from its people against any Pashtoons or even non-Afghan Pashtoons - they treat people with much more respect and follow Pashtoon etiquette with guests and such much closer. Occasionally you hear some untrue stereotypes being labeled on some Afghan Pashtoons but you really can't blame them for a lapse or two given the absolute bombardment of propaganda against Afghan Pashtoons from the Pakistani government. It also goes both ways to so its not as though the Afghan Pashtoons are innocent on this issue.

So, just to summarize, I never have said anything questioning the Pashtoons of the tribal areas of Pakistan or have never intended as much or really anywhere with distance from Peshawar. Peshawar itself also has many good individuals but they have unfortunately been influenced to a larger degree by the propaganda against Afghan Pashtoons and Afghans generally by the Pakistani government.

r u sure abt this statement coz the most pro pakistan i have seen are either from this region swat(plenty of examples with few exceptions ofcourse) or kurram agency...kpk and fata are v pro pakistan ,,,i find quetta ones to be the ones who basically love pashtuns on both sides to an extreme level and they considered them to be both pakistani and afghan national.

[khushal]

r u sure abt this statement coz the most pro pakistan i have seen are either from this region swat(plenty of examples with few exceptions ofcourse) or kurram agency...kpk and fata are v pro pakistan ,,,i find quetta ones to be the ones who basically love pashtuns on both sides to an extreme level and they considered them to be both pakistani and afghan national.

this is wrong. FATA are the least pro paksitan. they don't even fly the paksitani flag there. just the recent invasion of FATA was the first time since the creation of pasktiani did the paskitani flag flew in fata.
People in Kurrum are mostly Shia and they ally themselves with the pak army because they need their support to balance themselves against the other tribes who are sunni but they do not accept the pak constitution, they are very independent.

[Khostai]

In the end you are all just pakis LOL

[khushal]

Would this mean Afghan Pashtuns have lost their ghairat because they have been Persianized which in KP Pashtun minds equates with beghairati? or is it just one sided rules when it comes to beghairati?

if I say one sided than that would be a contradiction right. But I was referring to the elites as I explained it to Redwhite guy in the follow up post to the one you replied to.
You have to understand that Afghansitan' power brokers are mostly Tajiks and Hazaras today who are power brokers because they cooperate with the foreign invader but there is a struggle within the country. The Pashtuns in afghanistan have not given up the struggle but Pashtuns in KP have basically given up, they have truly submitted in a way that they are bombing their own brothers in FATA.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

In the end you are all just pakis LOL

and who are you?a Afghan?a citizen of afghanistan,a country occupied by 42 nation?

yes we are proud pakistanis,
your comparing afghanistan with pakistan?are you mad?

One is a nuclea power,with GDP 10times or more of yours,with a industry 50 times of yours,with export 50 times of yours,with infra,i doubt afghanistan will be able to reach the level of pakistan even in 2080.

Pakistan is a country that has been feeding your refugees and whole of afghanistan through the suppy line from pakistan for the past many decades?you dont have the aukaat to get your supply line through central asian country and than europe.and ofcourse iran would never allow you guys to terrorize there country like what you guys had done to pakistna by brining the ak 47 culture and all this terrorism into pakistan.


Pakistan on one hand is respected as a powerful muslim country among the muslim countries.on the other hand afghanistan is a considered a backward nation

60% of all the afghan elite pashtuns has left the country for pakistan.

While afghanistna future forever is in the dark pakistna on the other hand is considered having a bright future.

as per the 2003 imf estimate we would had now a 370billions dollars GDP if the growth rate of 8.4% since 2005 was continue.but allowing you afghan in 80's proved to be bad now by absorbing all the violence from you guys by our local pashtuns.

on one hand we pakistanis are making fighter aircrafts,tanks,ships,artillay,ballistic and cruise missile.on the other hand afghans are not even capable of manufacturing a real solid copy of ak 47.


Dont ever compare the present farsiwand afghanistan with us.we are miles ahead of you.

[Khostai]

and who are you?a Afghan?a citizen of afghanistan,a country occupied by 42 nation?

yes we are proud pakistanis,
your comparing afghanistan with pakistan?are you mad?

One is a nuclea power,with GDP 10times or more of yours,with a industry 50 times of yours,with export 50 times of yours,with infra,i doubt afghanistan will be able to reach the level of pakistan even in 2080.

Pakistan is a country that has been feeding your refugees and whole of afghanistan through the suppy line from pakistan for the past many decades?you dont have the aukaat to get your supply line through central asian country and than europe.and ofcourse iran would never allow you guys to terrorize there country like what you guys had done to pakistna by brining the ak 47 culture and all this terrorism into pakistan.


Pakistan on one hand is respected as a powerful muslim country among the muslim countries.on the other hand afghanistan is a considered a backward nation

60% of all the afghan elite pashtuns has left the country for pakistan.

While afghanistna future forever is in the dark pakistna on the other hand is considered having a bright future.

as per the 2003 imf estimate we would had now a 370billions dollars GDP if the growth rate of 8.4% since 2005 was continue.but allowing you afghan in 80's proved to be bad now by absorbing all the violence from you guys by our local pashtuns.

on one hand we pakistanis are making fighter aircrafts,tanks,ships,artillay,ballistic and cruise missile.on the other hand afghans are not even capable of manufacturing a real solid copy of ak 47.


Dont ever compare the present farsiwand afghanistan with us.we are miles ahead of you.

Than why are you geting mad man? You are paki and be pround of that, its not a problem with me. No go and wave your paki flag and clam down....lol