why are afghan pashtuns now called kabuli?true pashtun are pakistan or afghan pashtun

[gadoonwal]

i think u need to check on each n every detail that u have provided by taking valuable sources like books into consideration..
this is a humble request
personal conclusions dont matter

i did.You need to say goodbye to pak study then you will come the point.
Thank you

[gadoonwal]

not just that but look at this kadoowal claiming that pashtuns tell people that they are from kabul. i was born and raised in kabul yet i my family never ever called ourselves kabulis. matter of fact non pashtuns from other cities also dont call themselves kabul. most call themselves by the name of their ancestral city, such as khostai,kunaray,badakhshani,laghmani,paktiawal.

i think all these guys have is lies ,just to ignore their own state of decay and try to portray Afghans in a bad light. we cant blame them because their information comes from internet and that is one source which is kabulzada aka tajokistani troll.


i also dont think pukhtunkhwa is ready to join Afghanistan since it is full of corruption.
just take a look at the pollywood , look at all their pashto music industry.
that would be a disaster to Afghanistan.

@gadoonwal
dont brag too much buddy.
the war in Afghanistan is rozi for your type of people.
right now the supply route is through pukhtunkhwa ,what does that tell us?
look they are protesting cutting their business.
Afghan NATO supplies hit by transport strike - YouTube

listen to these morons.
they think they become ghazi once they have delivered the supply.
Nato Oil Tanker Drivers Problems - Ali Shinwari - YouTube

kabarwala,
The war in afghanistan is not rozi for us.Who feed us when there was no war in afghanistan.
Pashtunkhwa is much more richer then afghanistan.
It is you people eating in our land in millions and all of them proudly say ,,,i am ,,,kabalay.did we impose this name on you?.
Come and see the camps and streets of our cities full of you people.
Did we ever came to your side for the sake of bread?
your entire generation should be thankful to pashtuns of pashtunkhwa for shelters and so on.zaka kho halaq darta beneky wy khpala zaan ki sa zaay lary.chi pa kom taali ki dakagy pa hagay ki tashagy.ta razay aw mong ta pegorona kaway dawosa.
it is you run away from russains and then from ahamd shah masood.
All the kabali mahajars in pakistan are the loyal slave of isi and punjab.
It was pujab using your aid and you jahils serve their interests for few rupees.you fight for them in kashmeer for what?
chi staa pa shaan nasholata pukhtaana pa afghanistan ki wey khawray ba pakhtun yaw shey.

[Pukhtoon]

Dari has no right in Afghanistan and neither should Urdu in KPK or Godar.

Case closed.

That comment seemed to really have nothing to do with the point of my post.

[Kushan Prince]

That comment seemed to really have nothing to do with the point of my post.

Do ever proof read you're posts? You said Pashto has always been the national language of Afghanistan along with Dari.

Dari should have no basis in Afghanistan.

[Pukhtoon]

Do ever proof read you're posts? You said Pashto has always been the national language of Afghanistan along with Dari.

Dari should have no basis in Afghanistan.

Dari has been a national language in Afghanistan but was the point of my post whether Pashto should be the only language in Afghanistan or comparing the relative significance of Pashto as compared to Dari in Afghanistan and Urdu in Pakistan?

This was the second sentence in my post: " To say Dari in Afghanistan is the equivalent of Urdu in Pakistan is inaccurate. " --> That's the point of the post.

Your conclusion that Pashto should be the only language in Afghanistan and KPK has nothing to do with a comparison of the current and historical status of each language as against Pashto. Your comment would of made more sense if I had said Dari should have equivalent standing which I didn't. So, that being the case, your comment doesn't have much to do with the point of my post.

[Manzareh]

Just a few points not intended to cause dissension but to clarify some facts and misconceptions.

To say Dari in Afghanistan is the equivalent of Urdu in Pakistan is inaccurate.

Pashto is and has been a national language of Afghanistan along side Dari, which, has been the lingua franca in the region since time immemorial. Farsi/Dari was also a language required to be learned amongst the Indian subcontinent as well until the advent of Urdu because of all the scholarly works in the language including an amazing amount of Islamic works. Pashto is used in government, schools, on signs, radio, television, our national anthem, and media equally with Dari. Can the same be said for Pashto in Pakistan? Unfortunately the answer is a resounding "No."

In Islamabad, or Karachi, or Lahore, are students required to learn Pashto in school? Were Pashtoons even allowed to teach students in Pashto in KPK? As far as I can remember, they had to lobby to even be recognized as a national language and very recently some schooling is done in Pashto. Do they give equal time to both Pashto and Urdu on the news in Pakistan? In Afghanistan, most anyone that has finished 12th grade can speak Pashto, can you find the same thing in Islamabad?

In Afghanistan, non-Pashtoons accept and adhere to, but nowhere nearly as stringently, but nonetheless do consider Pashtoonwali concepts as part of their "Afghayat" attributable to all inhabitants of Afghanistan. Do Pakistani's by and large accept Pashtoonwali concepts as their own, even if they label it as something else?

Do they even respect our culture one iota? Or make jokes of our Emirs, our language, and become blind to the many excursions the same Pashtoons took into India to save the same Indian Muslims from the Hindu's, the people who now form the majority of Pakistan? In Afghanistan, I can say, because the Pashtoons are the ruling class and have been since the beginning, Pashtoon history has become the other ethnic groups shared history. Just like the Pakistanis have taught Pashtoons Punjabi history and Pakistani Pashtoons now consider it their own history, the other ethnic groups in Afghanistan have done the same, even when many of those same figures have attacked their people in times past.

Also, it's completely false to say Pashtoons consider themselves Kabuli even if there from Kabul. In fact, Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, and others will never call themselves Kabuli - Kabuli is only attributable to what we consider original inhabitants of Kabul. People consider themselves their original city or town, for example, like mentioned earlier, someone from Paktia living in Kabul or somewhere else for generations will say I am Paktiawal, Kuduzi, etc. or identify by their tribe. Further, it is very rare an Afghan Pashtoon, even if they have lived in a Farsi area for generations, to not know their tribe whereas the same is not true in all areas where Pashtoons live.

Further, one of the only reasons Afghans live in non-Pashtoon areas is because the capitol is in Kabul and therefore money, school, work, etc. flows from there. The ruling elite in Afghanistan was Pashtoon so when the capital moved, they too moved. The capital was changed I believe to monitor the non-Pashtoon populous and also during forced moves of Pashtoons in non-Pashtoon population centers. But despite this, they lobbied for increased exposure of Pashto even to non-Pashtoons. But that is another point.

Staying back on topic, though, I don't know if many from the other side have been to Afghanistan, but the treatment you would receive on the Afghan side from non-Pashtoons would be quite different to what is going on in Pakistan to Pakistani Pashtoons and moreso Afghan Pashtoons. Our concepts of nang, namoos, ghairat, hosting a guest, etc. are categorically different to our non-Pashtoon neighbors in Pakistan and could not be anymore different. Because of Pashtoon dominance in Afghanistan for so long, the cultural divide is much less as between minority groups in Afghanistan and Pashtoons as opposed to other Pakistanis and Sarhad Pashtoons.

There may be incidents peculiar to a person or individual but by and large, this has been the experience of the masses. I just thought I should post this so people on the other side of the Durrand can get a sense for why Pashtoons from Afghanistan have the feelings they do and feel the situation between the non-Pashtoon population as to the two countries are quite different.

In other words Afghanistan is not a Pashtun country, Pakistan is not a Pashtun country

Conclusion: Pashtuns do not have a country.

[Pukhtoon]

In other words Afghanistan is not a Pashtun country, Pakistan is not a Pashtun country

Conclusion: Pashtuns do not have a country.

I guess you could say that although I don't know of any country that's just one giant monolith of people. I mean, even Pashtoon's are just a conglomeration of people with varied origins who have adopted a similar language and way of life and now consider themselves all Pashtoon but it wasn't always like that. Taking an absolute approach, where its all or nothing and not giving any merit to the different shades of things I don't know what a proposed final end game is.

In any event, though, as of now, Pashtoons and their language and culture have a higher status in Afghanistan then Pakistan and so if your ideal is a completely 100% Pashtoon country, having Sarhad combined with what is now Afghanistan would be better but still not a 100% Pashtoon country with no other ethnic group, languages, or cultures. I mean, just in Sarhad alone about 50% of Peshawar's historical population was Hindko, you have slews of Hazaras, Chitrali's, Kalash, etc. so they would have to removed as well I guess if you want one monolith. If you want to go a step further, many Pashtoons don't consider some of the major Pashtoon tribes to even be khaas Pashtoon so where does the purging end? Everyone has their own ideas so to each their own I guess.

However, the point of the post was just to highlight that people shouldn't brush in such broad strokes when saying the influence of Dari is as pervasive and dominant as Urdu is on the Pashtoons/Pashto of Pakistan. This belief is why some Pashtoons on the Afghan side feel the way they do on this thread and others and I was just bringing that to the attention of people on the other side that might not see things from that vantage point.

[Pukhtoon]

kabarwala,
The war in afghanistan is not rozi for us.Who feed us when there was no war in afghanistan.
Pashtunkhwa is much more richer then afghanistan.
It is you people eating in our land in millions and all of them proudly say ,,,i am ,,,kabalay.did we impose this name on you?.
Come and see the camps and streets of our cities full of you people.
Did we ever came to your side for the sake of bread?
your entire generation should be thankful to pashtuns of pashtunkhwa for shelters and so on.zaka kho halaq darta beneky wy khpala zaan ki sa zaay lary.chi pa kom taali ki dakagy pa hagay ki tashagy.ta razay aw mong ta pegorona kaway dawosa.
it is you run away from russains and then from ahamd shah masood.
All the kabali mahajars in pakistan are the loyal slave of isi and punjab.
It was pujab using your aid and you jahils serve their interests for few rupees.you fight for them in kashmeer for what?
chi staa pa shaan nasholata pukhtaana pa afghanistan ki wey khawray ba pakhtun yaw shey.

It's this kind of talking that has made the hatred swell from Afghan Pashtoons as against Pakistani Pashtoons. You say the same insults as Punjabis and it shows how close your relationship is. Afghans die left and right, become refuge and go to their land, Pukhtankhwaa, (they will always consider it as their land), and you mock them, Alhamdillah. Your brothers and sisters die night and day and you have the nerve to make fun of their situation? Brother, why does Sarhad have money, from what, don't they eat out of the hand of Punjabi's and all the money they send into Sarhad?

Think about that for a second. As a Muslim and a Pashtoon what you said is beyond shameful - Allah (swt) loves the mazloom not the one who boasts about having money and as a Pashtoon I have never heard of boasting of money you have that is essentially khairat given from their Punjabi government via American aid. You shouldn't boast about that. I would also suggest you learn to differentiate between a Tajik and a Pashtoon. When you consider all Pashtoon's to call themselves Kabuli is why Afghans consider all Pakistani Pashtoons Punjabi. If you are truly interested in unity as you imply, maybe you should give these things greater thought.

[khushal]

not only that but he talks about ghyrat as if he knows what it is. Ghyrat is not boasting about feeding someone when in reality all those elites did was steal the UN Aid. Have you not noticed that as the UN stopped the Aid, they closed the refugee camps. Except for the FATA Pashtuns, most of KP Pashtuns elites never helped their brothers across the border, those elites just made money off of them and when the money stopped, they closed down the camps. KP Pashtuns elites have lost their ghyrat, they have been Indicized/panjabized which in Afgahns minds equates with baighyrati.

[khushal]

I guess you could say that although I don't know of any country that's just one giant monolith of people. I mean, even Pashtoon's are just a conglomeration of people with varied origins who have adopted a similar language and way of life and now consider themselves all Pashtoon but it wasn't always like that. Taking an absolute approach, where its all or nothing and not giving any merit to the different shades of things I don't know what a proposed final end game is.

In any event, though, as of now, Pashtoons and their language and culture have a higher status in Afghanistan then Pakistan and so if your ideal is a completely 100% Pashtoon country, having Sarhad combined with what is now Afghanistan would be better but still not a 100% Pashtoon country with no other ethnic group, languages, or cultures. I mean, just in Sarhad alone about 50% of Peshawar's historical population was Hindko, you have slews of Hazaras, Chitrali's, Kalash, etc. so they would have to removed as well I guess if you want one monolith. If you want to go a step further, many Pashtoons don't consider some of the major Pashtoon tribes to even be khaas Pashtoon so where does the purging end? Everyone has their own ideas so to each their own I guess.

However, the point of the post was just to highlight that people shouldn't brush in such broad strokes when saying the influence of Dari is as pervasive and dominant as Urdu is on the Pashtoons/Pashto of Pakistan. This belief is why some Pashtoons on the Afghan side feel the way they do on this thread and others and I was just bringing that to the attention of people on the other side that might not see things from that vantage point.

Not only that but, Pashto actually strengthened in Peshawar with the flood of Afghan refugees. Not only Pashto as the spoken language but pashtunyat. Most of these western pakis meet Kabulis in the west who speak little or no Pashto and think that every afghan is like that not to mention pak propaganda that make them think more about kashmiris being oppressed by india than their own brothers in FATA by their own army.

[rednwhite99]

not only that but he talks about ghyrat as if he knows what it is. Ghyrat is not boasting about feeding someone when in reality all those elites did was steal the UN Aid. Have you not noticed that as the UN stopped the Aid, they closed the refugee camps. Except for the FATA Pashtuns, most of KP Pashtuns elites never helped their brothers across the border, those elites just made money off of them and when the money stopped, they closed down the camps. KP Pashtuns elites have lost their ghyrat, they have been Indicized/panjabized which in Afgahns minds equates with baighyrati.

just a question i know u guys hate pakistan alot ..but what if in future i hope pakistani govt is removed and pakistani govt is divided into half afghans(citizens) and half pakistanis, and the name of country is changed to a name that is equally acceptable by both countries do u think these two countries should join and become one country..
u seem to be a educated guy ii think alot of guys follow u here if u start loving every ethnic group as a muslim brother , i think these two countries can progress a lot ..

[khushal]

just a question i know u guys hate pakistan alot ..but what if in future i hope pakistani govt is removed and pakistani govt is divided into half afghans(citizens) and half pakistanis, and the name of country is changed to a name that is equally acceptable by both countries do u think these two countries should join and become one country..
u seem to be a educated guy ii think alot of guys follow u here if u start loving every ethnic group as a muslim brother , i think these two countries can progress a lot ..

I don't hate Pakistan, I was criticizing the elites not the ordinary citizens in the previous post. Ordinary citizens are the same as any other place who just want to raise their families peacefully and I don't believe dividing is a practical long term solution, it would fail and rob people of something better. It is in the interest of all the common ordinary citizens of the whole Indian subcontinent with Afghanistan and central Asia Stans to come together and form one political and economic Union. This would benefit the ordinary citizens but would eliminate the current elites so the obstacles to the interest of the ordinary people are the elites in all those nations including Afghanistan.

Listen to this from 14:00 which explains the huge economic benefit to the average citizen in the region.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=y3LFTlDke_A

People like Karzai, Zardari, Keyani, Sharif and those strong men in the central Asia are enemies of their own people, they are stealing their own people's right for something better.

[KGODB]

Dari has no right in Afghanistan and neither should Urdu in KPK or Godar.

Case closed.

dont ever compare Pashto to Dari

[Manzareh]

I guess you could say that although I don't know of any country that's just one giant monolith of people. I mean, even Pashtoon's are just a conglomeration of people with varied origins who have adopted a similar language and way of life and now consider themselves all Pashtoon but it wasn't always like that. Taking an absolute approach, where its all or nothing and not giving any merit to the different shades of things I don't know what a proposed final end game is.

In any event, though, as of now, Pashtoons and their language and culture have a higher status in Afghanistan then Pakistan and so if your ideal is a completely 100% Pashtoon country, having Sarhad combined with what is now Afghanistan would be better but still not a 100% Pashtoon country with no other ethnic group, languages, or cultures. I mean, just in Sarhad alone about 50% of Peshawar's historical population was Hindko, you have slews of Hazaras, Chitrali's, Kalash, etc. so they would have to removed as well I guess if you want one monolith. If you want to go a step further, many Pashtoons don't consider some of the major Pashtoon tribes to even be khaas Pashtoon so where does the purging end? Everyone has their own ideas so to each their own I guess.

However, the point of the post was just to highlight that people shouldn't brush in such broad strokes when saying the influence of Dari is as pervasive and dominant as Urdu is on the Pashtoons/Pashto of Pakistan. This belief is why some Pashtoons on the Afghan side feel the way they do on this thread and others and I was just bringing that to the attention of people on the other side that might not see things from that vantage point.

I'm not talking about a country with one giant monolith of people, but if I was I could still give you plenty of examples such as England, Germany and other European countries where the white population is above 90% also look at Russia and many countries in Africa and you will find plenty of places with one giant monolith of people. however, you misinterpreted what we are saying, my point is not making Afghanistan a solely Pashtun inhabited place rather making Pashto and Pashtun culture the primary influence, I understand this is not possible because of Afghanistan being a shared country with two distinctly different cultures and languages equally taking a shared portion of a piece of land. Also, on the contrary I could say that I don't know (from the top of my head) any country that cannot decide which primary language and culture it wants to implement so it makes some 'united nations' within a single nation. The simple fact of the matter is when you ask a Persian from Afghanistan who's country is it, he'll say Persian, ask a Pashtun and he'll say Pashto, others will say both but the bottom line is there is no concrete answer.

[Manzareh]

KP Pashtuns elites have lost their ghyrat, they have been Indicized/panjabized which in Afgahns minds equates with baighyrati.

Would this mean Afghan Pashtuns have lost their ghairat because they have been Persianized which in KP Pashtun minds equates with beghairati? or is it just one sided rules when it comes to beghairati?