Islamic reaction to radical Muslims

[ozymandias]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyKmzEdHws&feature=player_embedded

[ozymandias]

"An al-Qaeda front organisation then offered $US100,000 ($A110,730) to anyone who murdered Vilks - with an extra $US50,000 ($A55,365) if his throat was slit - and $US50,000 ($A55,365) for the death of Nerikes Allehanda editor-in-chief Ulf Johansson."

Seems like some Muslims *DO* support terrorism, contrary to the claims made here...

[ozymandias]

^You consider Al Qaeda a George bush foundation to be Islamic?
cmon ozy.

Your knowledge in politics seems limited to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

All I really need to say.

[imb706]

Who is Vilks?

[ozymandias]

Who is Vilks?

One of the Danish cartoonists that Master Khan said 'is getting what he deserves'.

Basically a victim of Islamic terrorists simply because he exercised his right to free speech, and badly drew a cartoon of a sculpture with Mohammad's head on it.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Freedom of speech should also have its limits.

Why are we not allowed to deny the Holocaust? Because it is a fact. It happened. We have survivors, witnesses. Islam and its holy founder do not condone terrorism. It is a fact. His life was an open book, and no where can one find any direct directions from him to terrorize people, let alone him implying it. Therefore, these artists should educate themselves.

If the Holocaust sympathizers get upset at someone for denying the Holocaust, despite it being a form of freedom of speech, then Muslims have the right to also get upset. Those who deny the Holocaust could be imprisoned in some parts of the world, and this is widely accepted. So, why is it that cartoonists can claim something absurd and portray it as "freedom of speech?"

There is a huge campaign against Islam. Insha Allah, times will change. A point in time will arrive when the great-grand children of these Western people will apologize for the ancestors' behaviour. Their apology will come in the form of them accepting Islam and the Holy Prophet (saw) as truths.

We Muslims should just be patient. Attacking these cartoonists will not help the cause of Islam. These cartoonists cannot put a blemish on the beautiful character of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

[ozymandias]

Freedom of speech should also have its limits.

It does. It is limited by what the speaker chooses to say.

Why are we not allowed to deny the Holocaust?

You are. You just make yourself look like an ignorant bigot when you do, but that is your right as a human being to do so.

Because it is a fact. Islam and its holy founder do not condone terrorism. It is a fact. Therefore, these artists should educate themselves.

First of all, you are right that they should educate themselves -- but you should also educate yourself over the issues. Vilks did not portray Mohammad as a terrorist, nor did South Park. Vilks didn't even say that some of Mohammad's followers were terrorists. South Park did -- and you know what? Some of Mohammad's followers got upset and resorted to terrorism -- proving them right, and thus the claims as facts -- which you seem to think are safe even from your restrictions.

Even if you find the insinuation that some of Mohammad's followers are terrorists insulting and offensive -- you should find the people proving that some of Mohammad's followers are terrorists far more insulting and offensive -- and address the worst problem first.

If the Holocaust sympathizers get upset at someone for denying the Holocaust, despite it being a form of freedom of speech, then Muslims have the right to get upset.

Please tell me who is saying that you do not have a right to be upset? I would like to discuss this with them and try to correct their opinion.

Muslims have every right to be upset. They do not have the right to resort to terrorism.

Those who deny the Holocaust could be imprisoned in some parts of the world, and this is widely accepted.

It's just as wrong as imprisoning rape victims, or attacking other forms of free speech.

So, is it that cartoonists can claim something absurd and portray it as "freedom of speech?"

They sure can -- BECAUSE IT IS.

There is a huge campaign against Islam. Insha Allah, times will change. A point in time will arrive when the great-grand children of these Western people will apologize for the ancesters' behaviour. Their apology will come in the form of accepting Islam and the Holy Prophet (saw) as truths.

You can hope and pray for that -- but violent reactions do not help you acheive this goal.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Your post just confirmed to me that you have no care for truth. You just care about proving what is being done against Islam as something Islam deserves.

Again, you are using those who have given Islam a bad image as a reflection of Islamic teachings.

In a family you can have a son who a is robber and a son who is a cop. This should never be used to paint a picture of the family itself. One should educate themselves of the family's family values and then conclude which child is following in the footsteps of their upbringing.

[imb706]

Why are we not allowed to deny the Holocaust?

Since when are people not allowed to deny the Holocaust outside a few countries with those stupid holocaust denial laws? In the US, no such laws exist, so that´s a bad example. Why are cartoons being compared to the Holocaust anyway?

Islam and its holy founder do not condone terrorism. It is a fact. His life was an open book, and no where can one find any direct directions from him to terrorize people, let alone him implying it. Therefore, these artists should educate themselves.

His life is an open book? Many question, me included, that he was even real, and plus the legend of muhammad is one of terrorism. I mean, he would slaughter people for their native religions according to Islamic legends.

If the Holocaust sympathizers get upset at someone for denying the Holocaust, despite it being a form of freedom of speech, then Muslims have the right to also get upset. Those who deny the Holocaust could be imprisoned in some parts of the world, and this is widely accepted. So, why is it that cartoonists can claim something absurd and portray it as "freedom of speech?"

Yes, a cartoon is similar to holocause denial, but both are not punishable by law, so bad example.

There is a huge campaign against Islam. Insha Allah, times will change. A point in time will arrive when the great-grand children of these Western people will apologize for the ancestors' behaviour. Their apology will come in the form of them accepting Islam and the Holy Prophet (saw) as truths.

Not likely, that´s a terrible delusion of grandeur. I certainly won´t apologize for a free, independant press. Thankfully we can openly criticize religion in modern society.

Again, you are using those who have given Islam a bad image as a reflection of Islamic teachings.

How come religions get to throw away certain members because it makes them look bad? I mean, when a good chunk of muslims more or less support terrorism or fundamentalist Islam, that´s an accurate representation of the religion.

In a family you can have a son who a is robber and a son who is a cop. This should never be used to paint a picture of the family itself. One should educate themselves of the family's family values and then conclude which child is following in the footsteps of their upbringing.

What if the cop is one of those corrupt ones :p?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Since when are people not allowed to deny the Holocaust outside a few countries with those stupid holocaust denial laws? In the US, no such laws exist, so that´s a bad example. Why are cartoons being compared to the Holocaust anyway?

Yes, those Holocaust denial laws are stupid. They nonetheless exist. People in the Western nations is where they can get in trouble for it. It is a fact these laws exist.

Portraying Islam as a religion of terrorism is wrong, and to top it off, calling it "freedom of speech" is pathetic--just like those holocaust denial laws. To make the matters worst, using some emotional Muslims' reactions to confirm that Islam promotes terrorism.

His life is an open book? Many question, me included, that he was even real, and plus the legend of muhammad is one of terrorism. I mean, he would slaughter people for their native religions according to Islamic legends.

The key word used: "legend." Why don't you read material written by Muslims themselves.

Yes, a cartoon is similar to holocause denial, but both are not punishable by law, so bad example.

Who makes laws? Today, the same people who have made the Holocaust denial laws are allowing for Islam to be mocked upon--they are the same people who want Islam to be labeled as a religion of terrorism. So, no, not a bad example!

Not likely, that´s a terrible delusion of grandeur. I certainly won´t apologize for a free, independant press. Thankfully we can openly criticize religion in modern society.

There is nothing wrong with criticism! Just don't criticize for your own agenda. I am not counting on you to accept Islam with the way you think, but you won't have control over what your great-grand children will do.

How come religions get to throw away certain members because it makes them look bad? I mean, when a good chunk of muslims more or less support terrorism or fundamentalist Islam, that´s an accurate representation of the religion.

No, you have just come across, I supposed conveniently, those who are sympathizers. The majority of Muslims who don't associate Islam with terrorism are silent--either because of the terrorists, or the Western media that won't publicize the other face of Islam so those who are sincere can see both sides. Nonetheless, these fanatics are only a hand full. It is unfortunate that today this so-called "free, independant press" chooses what they want to portray to suit their own agenda.

What if the cop is one of those corrupt ones :p?

Perfect example of how you don't care about a constructive dialogue!

[ozymandias]

Your post just confirmed to me that you have no care for truth. You just care about proving what is being done against Islam as something Islam deserves.

Islam deserves this no more and no less than any other political or religious group, but they should also deal with it as well as every other group.

Again, you are using those who have given Islam a bad image as a reflection of Islamic teachings.

Not at all. I am not talking about what Islam teaches, I am talking about what it's followers do. It may be with, or against, what they were taught -- but they still do it.

Stop playing the victim.

In a family you can have a son who a is robber and a son who is a cop. This should never be used to paint a picture of the family itself. One should educate themselves of the family's family values and then conclude which child is following in the footsteps of their upbringing.

I agree -- but when the son steals something, it is still fair to say that he is a member of that family. He is not ejected from the family just by his actions -- he is a member of that family, and their reactions to his behavior reflect upon them, and paints a picture of that families values that can be used to educate an outsider.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^
If you read my posts I have never ever stripped a terrorist from calling himself or herself a Muslim. I am just saying that their actions or reactions don't reflect Islam itself. I am not playing the victim. I am in the fore-front of trying to show the other side of my beautiful faith. A faith that has been hijacked by "Muslims" who use Islam for their own political agendas.

Unfortunately, my approach is slow and tedious because I don't have the Western media helping me to promote the real face of Islam. The real face of Islam will not sell in the Western public. It is too boring.

[imb706]

Yes, those Holocaust denial laws are stupid. They nonetheless exist. People in the Western nations is where they can get in trouble for it. It is a fact these laws exist.

Let´s see, those western countries as you call them as in the vast minority of countries with those laws. Note that similar genocide denial (or even the reverse, genocide awareness) laws exist in the world, just look at Turkey, a muslim majority country. The fact is, you´re clearly fishing with such an example, as those are outdated laws that existed in those countries to put down Nazi insurgents from trying to take power, and now they´re out of date and are actually ammunition for neo-nazis. Saying that is representative of speech in the modern world is silly. Plus, the charging and arresting of people under those laws are very few and far between. David Irving got arrested because he knowlingly went into a country that banned such things and also was charged with perjury, among other things.

Portraying Islam as a religion of terrorism is wrong, and to top it off, calling it "freedom of speech" is pathetic

Wait a minute, we should be allowed to deny the holocaust but not call Islamic terrorist terrorist? Ahaha, yeah I see where this is going, because a lot of muslims themselves deny the holocaust, they should be able to express that in public, but if someone wants to voice concerns about militant right wing muslims, hate speech! Throw him in jail and throw away the key! Geesh, what a terrible double standard.

Saudi schools for example teach holocaust denial, and I´m sure you know that, and from what I can guess from that sentiment, you may agree with it. If I´m wrong, by all means correct me, but you do come off as that.

Who makes laws?

People do. What, do you think dogs do it? Only in that one city in California...

The key word used: "legend." Why don't you read material written by Muslims themselves.

Because it´s a terribly biased point of view that puts their own myths and legends above actual history. Why would I even waste my time with that stuff? It´d be like reading evangelical Christian papers showing ¨evidence¨ that Jesus existed.

Today, the same people who have made the Holocaust denial laws are allowing for Islam to be mocked upon

I´m sure you think of that as some terrible double standard, but by the fact that muslims deny the holocaust, it´s not such a double standard. Denying the holocaust is not taint amount to drawing some funny cartoons of some a mythic figure. Seriously, get over yourselves.

they are the same people who want Islam to be labeled as a religion of terrorism. So, no, not a bad example!

Who even really says this of any real significance? Honestly, no one but a few racist and far right wing Christians want to ban the Quran and kick out all muslims, seriously a very very bad example.

There is nothing wrong with criticism! Just don't criticize for your own agenda.

Wait a minute, so nothing is wrong with criticism, as long as the criticism is from your perspective, what you´ŕe labeling an agenda. Okay...then by that definition, given your beliefs and sentiments, only islamic criticism is allowed. Of course, isn´t that an agenda though? What the hell?

I am not counting on you to accept Islam with the way you think, but you won't have control over what your great-grand children will do.

Um...okay.

No, you have just come across, I supposed conveniently, those who are sympathizers.

Which are millions of people, ya know, those ¨jihad fighters¨ as they like to call themselves, and entire governments who support and funnel these bizarre religous ideas and movements.

The majority of Muslims who don't associate Islam with terrorism are silent--either because of the terrorists, or the Western media that won't publicize the other face of Islam so those who are sincere can see both sides.

How convienent, they don´t speak out but deep down they condemn it. Goes with my previous post about many muslims being terrible at condemning terrorist. Also sounds like some conspiracy theory if you ask me. Any proof?

It is unfortunate that today this so-called "free, independant press" chooses what they want to portray to suit their own agenda.

Again with the agenda! Ironically, aren´t muslims the ones pushing an agenda?

Perfect example of how you don't care about a constructive dialogue!

Perfect example on how you think that´s some sort of bullet-proof response.

If you read my posts I have never ever stripped a terrorist from calling himself or herself a Muslim. I am just saying that their actions or reactions don't reflect Islam itself. I am not playing the victim. I am in the fore-front of trying to show the other side of my beautiful faith. A faith that has been hijacked by "Muslims" who use Islam for their own political agendas.

Unfortunately, my approach is slow and tedious because I don't have the Western media helping me to promote the real face of Islam. The real face of Islam will not sell in the Western public. It is too boring.

Yeah but the legends of Islam themselves are full of terrorism, violence and bloodshed.

[imb706]

It´s actually the religion of submission, hence it´s name. That doesn´t really entail peace.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear brother, you are missing the point. Please stop for a moment and digest what I am saying as a whole. I can't be more begging than this.

Let´s see, those western countries as you call them as in the vast minority of countries with those laws. Note that similar genocide denial (or even the reverse, genocide awareness) laws exist in the world, just look at Turkey, a muslim majority country. The fact is, you´re clearly fishing with such an example, as those are outdated laws that existed in those countries to put down Nazi insurgents from trying to take power, and now they´re out of date and are actually ammunition for neo-nazis. Saying that is representative of speech in the modern world is silly. Plus, the charging and arresting of people under those laws are very few and far between. David Irving got arrested because he knowlingly went into a country that banned such things and also was charged with perjury, among other things.

My point is that we should not deny the truth. Those who deny the truth are upsetting people who know what the truth is. It is a fact that Turkey killed many Armenians and Greeks. Why are Armenians and Greeks upset at Turkey? Because Turkey is denying it.

We Muslims know the true face of Islam and the real character of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). I was never taught violence as a child. I was also told to be patience and forbearing. In my life my role model is Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

Whenever I do something, I always keep his (saw) tradition in mind. I would be more than glad to show you what he (saw) told Muslims. You will not see any encouragement from his part to cause disorder to society. In fact, he (saw) totally against societal disorder.

The image that the West is portraying of Islam is wrong. It is upsetting. We want to them to put limits on "freedom of speech." How could something be freedom of speech when you are attacking a person who is dear to 1/4 of the worlds population.

Many people have come and gone in history. Their names are only preserved in books. Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) appeared over 1430 years ago. Yet, he is still living in the homes of every single Muslim. Muslims show their love for him by walking in his footsteps. If he truly taught us to be violent and savage, you would see all Muslims' reaction the same. Unfortunately for the few who have realize that religion is a means to control people and have used his beautiful character to entice unsuspecting ignorant Muslims towards their own political agendas.

Wait a minute, we should be allowed to deny the holocaust but not call Islamic terrorist terrorist? Ahaha, yeah I see where this is going, because a lot of muslims themselves deny the holocaust, they should be able to express that in public, but if someone wants to voice concerns about militant right wing muslims, hate speech! Throw him in jail and throw away the key! Geesh, what a terrible double standard.

I never said to deny the Holocaust. I said to call a spade a spade. Call Islamic terrorists terrorists, but don't say that it is a reflection of Islam itself and its holy founder!

Saudi schools for example teach holocaust denial, and I´m sure you know that, and from what I can guess from that sentiment, you may agree with it. If I´m wrong, by all means correct me, but you do come off as that.

I don't associate myself with what Saudi schools teach. Unfortunately, because Saudi Arabia is where the two holiest sites of Islam are, many innocent and unsuspecting Muslims fall for their preaching and agendas against the West. Many Muslims don't live in modern urban areas. They are simple and good hearted people. A lot of money is being spent by Saudi Arabia to spread their ideology around the globe by using simple minded Muslims as tools.

People do. What, do you think dogs do it? Only in that one city in California...

You get my point.

Because it´s a terribly biased point of view that puts their own myths and legends above actual history. Why would I even waste my time with that stuff? It´d be like reading evangelical Christian papers showing ¨evidence¨ that Jesus existed.

Well, according to the Holy Quran, you are not compelled to follow religion. So do as you please, sir.

I´m sure you think of that as some terrible double standard, but by the fact that muslims deny the holocaust, it´s not such a double standard. Denying the holocaust is not taint amount to drawing some funny cartoons of some a mythic figure. Seriously, get over yourselves.

Why are you accusing me of something false? When did I deny the Holocaust? I gather you don't digest what I write. You are so full of yourself, sorry to say.

For a second stop thinking that I cannot possibly be right. Read what I am writing. I am not here for a debate. I am here to clear up misconceptions. If I am wasting my time with you, then please let me know. I do not wish to waste your time.

Who even really says this of any real significance? Honestly, no one but a few racist and far right wing Christians want to ban the Quran and kick out all muslims, seriously a very very bad example.

No, it is not, dear friend. So many people from different religions do bad things today. However, Muslims are the only ones who are labeled as problems due to the teachings of Islam itself.

Wait a minute, so nothing is wrong with criticism, as long as the criticism is from your perspective, what you´ŕe labeling an agenda. Okay...then by that definition, given your beliefs and sentiments, only islamic criticism is allowed. Of course, isn´t that an agenda though? What the hell?

Again, please stop taking things out of context. You know what I mean.

Um...okay.

Which are millions of people, ya know, those ¨jihad fighters¨ as they like to call themselves, and entire governments who support and funnel these bizarre religous ideas and movements.

Millions? Please don't take me for an idiot. Entire governments? I am guessing you are not well in-tuned with present day politics?

How convienent, they don´t speak out but deep down they condemn it. Goes with my previous post about many muslims being terrible at condemning terrorist. Also sounds like some conspiracy theory if you ask me. Any proof?

I am glad you responded as such. It goes to show, that you purposely try to find information to suit your needs. I suggest you start using 'google' to to find this information. The same tool you use to find things against Islam.

Again with the agenda! Ironically, aren´t muslims the ones pushing an agenda?

I hope your sincere research will lead you to change this comment one day.

Perfect example on how you think that´s some sort of bullet-proof response.

You know it's true. You don't care about truth. Debating seems to be a game for you.

Yeah but the legends of Islam themselves are full of terrorism, violence and bloodshed.

We Muslims only care about the Holy Prophet (saw) not any other legend.