Islamic reaction to radical Muslims

[imb706]

The Raelians are our creators.

[ozymandias]

How can you not see how illogical your thinking is you are not accepting the truth.

Oddly enough, not only can I point out that is an appropriate reply to you, I can cite evidence to back up my case.

Obviously there has to be a creator for these hundreds of thousands of species.

No obviously about it, unless we are facing a language problem of some sort. While the variety of species is easily explained by evolution, I would not call 'evolution' a creator the same way one would suppose a deity as a creator.

How do you think they got here?

Evolution, and natural processes. There is absolutely no reason to involve a supernatural being or process, and in fact, that goes contrary to logic by adding unneeded complexity when a simple solution exists.

[ozymandias]

The Raelians are our creators.

Interestingly enough that answer is not at all different than using 'god' as an answer to the Prime Mover question -- and it suffers from the exact same compounding flaws.

[imb706]

Yep. I laugh my ass off when creationist bash Raelians, even though they believe in the exact same thing they do.

[ozymandias]

And what is your simple solution?

Logically speaking, when given two alternatives that both meet the given evidence, and both result in the same end, it is illogical to assume that the more complex solution is the right one.

Adding complexity with no evidence to support the increased complexity is illogical.

you expect us all to believe there is no God?

No sir, but I hope that you can at least admit that it is illogical to assume that a creator was required in the face of existing evidence.

You can believe whatever you want, as long as you have the intellectual honesty to admit the flaws in your belief, and the moral integrity to not attempt to force those beliefs on others.

[ozymandias]

It's sad to see Pashtuns like Ozymandias convert to athiesm.

Two quick corrections --> I am not pashtun, nor did I ever convert to atheism.

May Allah help you and guide you.

Thanks, I guess.

[ozymandias]

so Ozy you expect me to drop my Islam and my Quran and start saying no to everything?

Again, nope.

I expect you to be able to admit that your faith is a personal thing and is not based on external evidence and logic. You don't *have* to, you know, thanks to free speech and all, but if you are going to pretend your religion is based on evidence and logic, I will keep asking you to provide said evidence and logic.

Contrary to many of the vocal atheists, I do not expect you to give up religion as long as you are fully educated and only hurting yourself. If you are not fully educated, I simply expect you to be given the opportunity to correct this (free and open access to education is closely linked to free speech). Whether you accept the opportunity is up to you. If you harm others through your religion (abuse, infringing on rights, etc) I expect you to be appropriately punished.

[ozymandias]

My faith is based on evidence which is the Holy Quran.

My point exactly. To say you have evidence requires more than that, otherwise every religion would be true -- even the ones that say they are the only religion. Christians point to the Bible and the Book or Mormon and say that it is their evidence. The Jews can do the same. They cannot all be true.

You have a two stage thing you need to prove, and the Koran does neither:
1) prove a god, any god, exists.
2) prove that the most likely god is your god.

You can also throw in there 3) prove that believing is important. I only add the third because people love to try and prove the third and ignore the first two.

What kind of proof do you expect me to show you, God? Obviously I can't proof he exists, just like how you can't proof he does not exist.

Not true -- it is possible to show the existence of something, you simply show that it exists. The reverse is not true, since I cannot show you everywhere and everywhen, you can simply point out that the god I fail to show you can exist elsewhere or elsewhen.

I can prove cats exist -- I just show you a cat. I cannot prove that unicorns do not exist -- as I cannot show you the non-existence of something. It may exist somewhere we have not looked yet.

I am currently in college working on my bachelors and I am a proud Muslim. Hopefully I will enlighten you that Islam is the truth.

Good luck with that. You have quite the struggle on your hands, especially given the arguments you have thus far tried to use.

[ozymandias]

I will answer the above when I get home tonight.

Take your time.

I hope you don't think I am trying to attack you. We are both learning from each other.

I hope you don't think I am trying to attack *you*. I only hope to be teaching half as much as I am learning.

[imb706]

Unless you live in a theocracy.

[imb706]

So if you're government and way of life is controlled by a religious institution, religion isn't taken very seriously?

[Talal]

Recently I have seen a lot of discussion around some radicals threatening assassination over the following image/video:


I was just curious as to why people are willing to escalate from a simple picture and video to something as horrible as threats of murder.

I am also a bit curious as to why the publicized outrage is so one sided. Is it a case of the media not advertising the rational Muslims speaking out against the radicals, or is it a case of many Muslims actually supporting not just censorship but capital punishment for violation of said censorship?

Furthermore, while I know what many of my friends and the locals would say in response to this, I am interested in a more diverse pool:

Where do people stand on issues like the inherent human rights to free speech and religion? Do you not believe in these ideals? Do you believe there are limits?

Just trying to open up a line of discourse and hopefully we can all walk away a little more informed about the world we live in.

What is freedom of speech really ? What is Hate speech ? and What is the speech that propagates hate speech ?

Agreed death threats are uncalled for, but so is an uncalled war that has brought death on so many. Do you expect them to understand your views of democracy and freedom, when under the same banner of "freedom" you march into their country laying waste to centuries worth of culture, history in your wake.

You cannot understand their point of views without considering the context of it all. These are the people you are waging war on day and night, so you understand when a picture of Prophet Muhammad doesnt get the civilised protest response you expected ?

Muslims turning to violence over this matter is wrong, but that is nothing compared to the wrong that the same people who preach about free speech are doing around the globe.

Cause and effect, you caused it now deal with it

[imb706]

Being that muhammad is dead (I don't even think he existed), how can making him dressed in a bear suit be "hate speech?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhCjv9EcLpw

[Talal]

^ you think that is ridiculous ? i'll tell you a good one, US invaded Iraq saying that had weapons of mass destruction guess what they found ? an old mig burried in sand lol

but thats fine killing more than 100,000 innocent people is meaningless really, and im talking to a guy whole belives that half of the world believes in a prophet that didnt even exist

[imb706]

Oh please, what does Muhammad dressed as a bear have to do with the invasion of Iraq? Not everyone in Iraq is a muslim.