Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Have you completed presenting your argument?

[Saif ul Haq]

Have you completed presenting your argument?

Rest of the posts will follow yours on the condition that you must provide references as I had mentioned previously

Ho, for now

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Insha Allah!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

So, are you saying that Hadhrat Isa (as) is still sleeping?

[Saif ul Haq]

So, are you saying that Hadhrat Isa (as) is still sleeping?

No, what's being said is Jesus was taken up, how is he living currently is unknown

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If you say he was sleeping then we have to know if he is still sleeping? No? How about Isra and Miraj, does that not shed light on whether he is sleeping or awake?

Why don't you take the meaning of death?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Well, now we have been told that he was taken to the Heavens whilst sleeping. I hope this brother will stick around. We will solve this issue.

[Dehqan]

It was the british Empire who created Qadyani sect to misguide muslims. main purpose was to eliminate Jehad against the British. Mirz Qadyanee was tool in hands of british.

[Saif ul Haq]

If you say he was sleeping then we have to know if he is still sleeping? No? How about Isra and Miraj, does that not shed light on whether he is sleeping or awake?

We don't know how Jesus was saved, except that he was taken up and will return [43:61]. He was not killed as falsely claimed by the Jews nor crucified as the Christians believe. Jesus escaped and was raised:

"For of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself ( bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi); and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." [4:157-158]

Ibn Jarir states: "(mutawaffika) here refers to his ascension."

Why don't you take the meaning of death?

For several reasons, firstly, death is not taken into account due to the lack of evidences, as when referring to the deaths of other Prophets, Allah uses the words "qataluhu" "mawta" and phrases derived from them

Secondly, many authentic narrations from Rasoolullah mentioning he was taken up and was never killedgl

[شمله ور خراساني]

In a book which the Qadianis have translated and published in English, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, while acknowledging his beliefs, writes:
"(3) the belief that all those so-called Muslims who have not entered into his [Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's] bai`at formally, wherever they may be, are Kafirs and outside the pale of Islam, even though they may not have heard the name of the Promised Messiah. That these beliefs have my full concurrence, I readily admit."

Elaboration please.

the thing is, momin keeps weeping and whining why we do not accept his deviant sect as muslims. But according to their own books, anyone who does not believe in the false prophet who died from diarrhea is a disbeliever. A KAAFIR that is.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

In a book which the Qadianis have translated and published in English, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, while acknowledging his beliefs, writes:
"(3) the belief that all those so-called Muslims who have not entered into his [Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's] bai`at formally, wherever they may be, are Kafirs and outside the pale of Islam, even though they may not have heard the name of the Promised Messiah. That these beliefs have my full concurrence, I readily admit."

Elaboration please.

I, and my beloved Mujib discussed this. Let me find the post.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

It was the british Empire who created Qadyani sect to misguide muslims. main purpose was to eliminate Jehad against the British. Mirz Qadyanee was tool in hands of british.

How much success have they had?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

We don't know how Jesus was saved, except that he was taken up and will return [43:61]. He was not killed as falsely claimed by the Jews nor crucified as the Christians believe. Jesus escaped and was raised:

"For of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself ( bal Rafa`ahu Allahu ilayhi); and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." [4:157-158]

Ibn Jarir states: "(mutawaffika) here refers to his ascension."




For several reasons, firstly, death is not taken into account due to the lack of evidences, as when referring to the deaths of other Prophets, Allah uses the words "qataluhu" "mawta" and phrases derived from them

Secondly, many authentic narrations from Rasoolullah mentioning he was taken up and was never killedgl

First off, I love to see ahadith where our beloved Prophet (saw) refers to Hadhrat Isa (as) being taken alive into the heavens. Please provide the ahadith, at least.

Second, are you saying that tawaffa has never been used in the Quran to mean death?

Thirdly, 43:61 does not refer to Hadrat Isa (as) physically, or directly. We can interpreted as:

He was the Sign of the Hour for the Jewish teaching.

1. Islam has superceded that teaching now.
2. Hadhrat Isa (as) was the last prophet to be sent to the Children of Israel

Fourthly, Could you please translate the following (5:116-8)

وَإِذْ قَالَ اللّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنتَ قُلتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَـهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ إِن كُنتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلاَ أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلاَّمُ الْغُيُوبِ

مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلاَّ مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَأَنتَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ

إِن تُعَذِّبْهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ عِبَادُكَ وَإِن تَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ فَإِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin, I am willing to discuss this topic with you.

Whenever you are ready, let me know. I would love to learn from you and I hope you can learn from me.

Yes, I would love to discuss. Please let me know where you would like to start from.

May Allah reward you.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

According to the Quran they are not wrong for saying this.

The reason for this is that they claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet. In Islam we can't reject any prophet. This is one causes of being declared a kafir, according to Islamic Shariah.

What they are saying is this:

If someone willfully rejects Mirza Ghulam Ahmad then he or she is a kafir. However, if someone does not understand and is not convinced then that person is not a kafir. This is exactly the Quranic stance on this matter.