Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[Saif ul Haq]

If we just focus on these three verses I have presented then it should be enough, however, there many many many more.

First off, Allah says that prophets have passed away before Hadhrat Muhammad (saw), and no exception is given. The same is said about Hadhrat Isa (as) that all prophets have passed away before him and no except is given [5:75]. Which means that Hadhrat Isa (as) is passed away. If we say that Hadhrat Isa (as) is not passed away, then who is alive before Hadhrat Isa (as) for the exact same wording is used for him as well.

Secondly, Allah says that he will give death (tawaffa) before He raises him to Himself (rafa'). So, how could Hadhrat Isa (as) ever come back? Death happened before he was raised?

Thirdly, if Hadhrat Isa (as) was to come back, how could he tell Allah Ta'ala that he did not know what the Christians had done after Allah had given him death? If he (as) was to return, then how is it possible for him to say that he did not know, when one of his duties is to break the cross?

I will answer all three of these misunderstandings that you have brought up in separate posts Inshallaah

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I will answer all three of these misunderstandings that you have brought up in separate posts Inshallaah

Insha Allah! Welcome to the forums.

I have been waiting for someone to discuss this with me instead of simply bad mouthing.

May Allah reward you, in advance.

[Saif ul Haq]

What are you talking about brother, what does kun fayakun have to do with our topic?

You've mentioned the following

When Allah is fa'il and a human being is maf'ul bihi this can only and only mean death.

I demonstrated that you were incorrect. When Allaah is Faa'il while a creation is Maaf'ool it doesn't denote to death at all. I would like you provide some references of Arabic grammarians indicating the same conclusion.

I used Kun Fayakun as an example that involves Allaah being Faa'il and any form of creation being Maaf'ool which doesn't mean death, in fact it could mean the total opposite.

We are discussing Arabic language, in Arabic one must provide other evidences as witnesses to what you have implied. Whether these evidences are from the Qur'aan itself or experts in the language.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dearest brother, I was referring to the word tawaffa.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Honestly? I would say to him: Where are you getting your info from? lol

Bring any of his answers and I will answer you, my beloved sister.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Have you heard this clip, dearest sister?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I think the clip was uploaded by an Ahmadi. And he gives the answer at the end of the clip.

Ahmadis don't believe, as per the Quran, that there is a difference between a "rasul" and a "nabi." To Ahmadis they are both one and the same person. Zakir Naik is making up a false accusation against them, by saying that Ahmadis believe that one can still come and not the other.

Zakir Naik is not an authority, unfortunately he is considered as one and everyone accepts his answers as final. It is truly sad. In this clip, he has made an erroneous claim against the Ahmadis. It is sad.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Do you understand Urdu, my beloved brother?

[Saif ul Haq]

I will answer all three of these misunderstandings that you have brought up in separate posts Inshallaah

I decided to delay my reply for the three points you brought up and will firstly discuss "Tawaffa" as this will give a domino affect to the rest of the points. I apologize in advance if you were looking for this discussion.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Please proceed, dearest brother, because by solving what tawaffa means we'll solve everything. This word is the key.

So, take your time.

[Saif ul Haq]

I was aware, I only intended to show how Allah being faa'il and creation being maaf'ul doesn't always imply death.

Regarding "Tawaffa", we will look at what Arabic grammarians have to say, as they are the experts. Root word for "Tawaffa" is "Waffa" and according to 'al-Mawrid' on page 1240 - "Waffa" means:

"To give someone his due in full, let someone have his full share, pay someone in full, to treat exhaustively, write or speak fully about, set forth or develop in detail, fulfillment, keeping, honoring, carrying out, living up to, redemption, making good, standing by, carrying out."

In return "Tawaffa" means "taking the self back" or as mentioned in 'al-Mawrid'

"to take (receive, get, obtain) one’s due or one’s share in full"

Allah also uses "Tawaffa" in the following verses: "It is He Who takes you back to Himself (yatawaffakum) at night, while knowing the things you perpetrate by day, and then wakes you up again, so that a specified term may be fulfilled. Then you will return to Him. Then He will inform you about what you did." [6:60]

"Allah takes back people’s selves (tawaffa) when their death arrives and those who have not yet died, while they are asleep. He keeps hold of those whose death has been decreed and sends the others back for a specified term. There are certainly Signs in that for people who reflect." [39:42]

These verses are clear that Allah takes back the self of the one who is in sleep and returns it to those who are not yet to die. For those who die, their self is returned.

So it can be said that the phrase “take your souls by night” (6:60) means to cause you to sleep just as the phrase “yab athukum” (to revive or quicken you or, as translated, to be raised) is used to refer to us waking up from sleep.

I have to run, will be back later inshallaah.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Are you finished or is there more, my beloved brother?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Take your time, and let me know when you are finished so that I can proceed.

[Saif ul Haq]

"Tawaffa" on its own means "take" as in "tawaffaytu min fulanin ma liya 'alayhi" this is when one would say: "I have taken back my debt from so and so"

In the Qur'aan it is seen as to take in death or in sleep. This proves that "tawaffa" does not mean death only. "Tawaffa" from 6:60 can also be said to mean “to cause one to sleep"

One might question, ‘why should tawaffa mean to sleep in the case of Jesus?’ In other words ‘why should there be sleep before ascension?’ To try to explain it in modern scientific terms, it is known that the higher a man goes, the harder it gets to breathe.

Therefore if Jesus(as) was taken up while awake, that would have been difficult for him. However while in a state of deep sleep, the ascension would be much easier for him.

[Saif ul Haq]

Rest of the posts will follow yours on the condition that you must provide references as I had mentioned previously