Slavery intrinsic to Arab Culture?

[JattApache]

But slavery form part of the arab culture

That's not the case for the pashtuns, they have a different culture

[RevolutionThroughReason]

What sort of evidence. A book written by farangis?

Even the books written by British colonialists don't mention anything about pashtuns keeping slaves but they do mention Indians who did jobs in pashtun lands which pashtuns considered too low for themselves such as selling bangles and so on.

Well where is the proof that proves pashtuns kept slaves? preferablly from an Afghan/pashtun writer.

Even if it's a book written by Farangis; so what? Does the Sky turn red because a Farangi said it is blue? That's Ad-Hominem Fallacy .

But even then you're wrong; Unless you're suggesting Abdur Rahman Khan was a farangi

Actually British cilonial books DO in fact mention slavery amongst Pastuns.

why do you think Amanullah BANNED slavery? You don't "ban" something that doesn't exist.

here you go a British reference to slaves in Afghanistan; since you claim that the British never mentioned it

what are you going to do now ...say it's a farangi propaganda?

That's the Problem with Pashtuns; they never want to admit when they're wrong.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NY5CAAAAIAAJ&pg=PR10&dq=At+the+Court+of+Amir+hazara+slaves&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5ye8T6-VEZP06AGvxJVN&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=At%20the%20Court%20of%20Amir%20hazara%20slaves&f=false

turn to page 210

[RevolutionThroughReason]

No, that's not true.
Show me a proof, a quote
( and not from an angrezi or farangi book, from a real book )
.

why would an Angrezi or Farangi book not be a real book? That's Ad-homnem.

[JattApache]

why would an Angrezi or Farangi book not be a real book? That's Ad-homnem.

Why ?
Because all the angrezi books during the british raj about indians or pashtuns are false .

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Why ?
Because all the angrezi books during the british raj about indians or pashtuns are false .

how so ...any evidence?

[Michin Khel]

Why ?
Because all the angrezi books during the british raj about indians or pashtuns are false .

Nope, most of them were great observers, they observed and recorded information on each caste, tribe, village of hindostan and with the help of it they have ruled it with few thousands angraiz. Thanks to them precious info on pashtuns is available to us.Thanks to their books written by their commisioners and travelers i was able to learn about statistics, lifestyle, food and customs of my tribe 150 years ago. Only those british writers were biased who did'nt live among pashtuns and did'nt observe them but wrote books about us during their short appointments e.g sir winston churchil the fat basstard.

[Toramana]

I think that it would not be any blow to our national self-esteem to accept that slavery existed in some form (in Pashtuns) and that women have been and still are being treated like sub-humans in Pashtun society although it is also a fact that it might not have existed to the extent to which it has in other cultures.

For example, I can imagine, when Ahmad Shah Baba and other Pashtun armies before him defeated Indian armies, they must have made slaves (including women or concubines) for the temptation most likely would be inescapable. Now a question arises i.e., where are all those slaves? In my opinion, because Pashtuns didn't have strong economy (scarcity of agricultural land or any good scale mercantile activity) to feed the slaves, so they were sold/traded.

When Pashtuns fought in Kashmir in 1948, they also captured some Kashmiri women and brought them back to KP(one feels extremely pained imagining women some may be 11 or 12 years separated from their parents and turned into slaves).

In Charssada, it is a common talk that many of the artisan classes were brought by their Pashtun overlords from Hindustan. But it is also a fact that Pashtun society is intrinsically egalitarian and , therefore, some advantage of that also might have accrued to these classes who now have a pretty good status in society (completely assimilated as almost Pashtun equals).

[RevolutionThroughReason]

exactly Toramana; we should admit our faults instead of denying them and learning from our past and progressing rather than pretending they don't happen and accusing people of being "Shia Hazara Maoists" as a way to evade our own guilt.

You're very right in criticizing the arabs for the slave trade, it is the only way we will end this mentality and problem.

[Manzareh]

Nope, most of them were great observers, they observed and recorded information on each caste, tribe, village of hindostan and with the help of it they have ruled it with few thousands angraiz. Thanks to them precious info on pashtuns is available to us.Thanks to their books written by their commisioners and travelers i was able to learn about statistics, lifestyle, food and customs of my tribe 150 years ago. Only those british writers were biased who did'nt live among pashtuns and did'nt observe them but wrote books about us during their short appointments e.g sir winston churchil the fat basstard.

Most of them were made up storys about pashtuns, they also had propaganda back in those days, infact at a more blatant level.

theres book about afridi women that used to be so wild that they used to tie up british captured soldiers and execute them by squatting over the mouths of the soldier and drowning them in urine. this an accepted so called 'observed and recorded' incident. I say what bull****, and for you to believe sworn enemies that made books about you were not biased and didnt include any lies is the peak of being gullible.

[khushal]

Even if it's a book written by Farangis; so what? Does the Sky turn red because a Farangi said it is blue? That's Ad-Hominem Fallacy .

But even then you're wrong; Unless you're suggesting Abdur Rahman Khan was a farangi

Actually British cilonial books DO in fact mention slavery amongst Pastuns.

why do you think Amanullah BANNED slavery? You don't "ban" something that doesn't exist.

here you go a British reference to slaves in Afghanistan; since you claim that the British never mentioned it

what are you going to do now ...say it's a farangi propaganda?

That's the Problem with Pashtuns; they never want to admit when they're wrong.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NY5...slaves&f=false

turn to page 210

you fail again. badmash is right. turn to page 212, the author claims the slaves are treated so well that he cant tell who is the slave and who the master. They are not slaves in the sense on how the arabs and the europeans sanctioned and institutionalized the slave trade. It mentions the slaves of Kabul but mostly describe laborors. It even mentions those slaves share the work with the sons of nobles and gentlemen and no one could tell the difference between the son of the noble and the slave/laboror. It even talks about a slave that was sold by the amir in russia and that same slave ran away from russia to return to the amir. Why would a slave return back to a pashtun that sold him, because he was not a slave when he was with the pashtun. He was a laboror.
If you read about the arab slave trade, the trade reached persia, south asia but never pashtunland becasue it would have been against pashtun culture.

I told you before, we are xenophobic, we dont like outsiders and we like equality for us and others. We give refuge to people that ask for it. If a slave ran away and asks someone for refuge, that pashtun would put his life on the line for that person.
You dont make sense.

[khushal]

exactly Toramana; we should admit our faults instead of denying them and learning from our past and progressing rather than pretending they don't happen and accusing people of being "Shia Hazara Maoists" as a way to evade our own guilt.

You're very right in criticizing the arabs for the slave trade, it is the only way we will end this mentality and problem.

Dude his intention is not to criticize the arab slave trade but to criticize islam and make islam look like a religion that sanctioned the slave trade. His sworn enemy is Islam, not arabs. arabs are easy to defeat, he knows that, Islam is not and he knows that as well.
His plan is to portray Islam as a tool that arabs used for their own interests.

[khushal]

I think that it would not be any blow to our national self-esteem to accept that slavery existed in some form (in Pashtuns) and that women have been and still are being treated like sub-humans in Pashtun society although it is also a fact that it might not have existed to the extent to which it has in other cultures.

For example, I can imagine, when Ahmad Shah Baba and other Pashtun armies before him defeated Indian armies, they must have made slaves (including women or concubines) for the temptation most likely would be inescapable. Now a question arises i.e., where are all those slaves? In my opinion, because Pashtuns didn't have strong economy (scarcity of agricultural land or any good scale mercantile activity) to feed the slaves, so they were sold/traded.

When Pashtuns fought in Kashmir in 1948, they also captured some Kashmiri women and brought them back to KP(one feels extremely pained imagining women some may be 11 or 12 years separated from their parents and turned into slaves).

In Charssada, it is a common talk that many of the artisan classes were brought by their Pashtun overlords from Hindustan. But it is also a fact that Pashtun society is intrinsically egalitarian and , therefore, some advantage of that also might have accrued to these classes who now have a pretty good status in society (completely assimilated as almost Pashtun equals).

PAshtuns do marry women of people they conquer but the rest you say has no merit. bring forth the evidence or shut the hell up.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Most of them were made up storys about pashtuns, they also had propaganda back in those days, infact at a more blatant level.

theres book about afridi women that used to be so wild that they used to tie up british captured soldiers and execute them by squatting over the mouths of the soldier and drowning them in urine. this an accepted so called 'observed and recorded' incident. I say what bull****, and for you to believe sworn enemies that made books about you were not biased and didnt include any lies is the peak of being gullible.

you say bull**** because ...you don't want to believe it happened?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

PAshtuns do marry women of people they conquer but the rest you say has no merit. bring forth the evidence.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nbZgnqfXjnQC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=khalji+concubines&source=bl&ots=u1AJwG6mlQ&sig=DPfjsLQfm-nMv4i31h3uwoO8XAA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4mW8T7u4D-z26gHVpvUx&ved=0CFQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=khalji%20concubines&f=false

[khushal]

where is the quote

there is no quote, it is a commentary done by somebody like him who knows nothing and does not make sense.