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  • Slavery intrinsic to Arab Culture?

    New York Sun*
    June 16, 2005

    * Cross-posted with permission
    Homaidan Ali Al-Turki, 36, and his wife, Sarah Khonaizan, 35, appear to be a model immigrant couple. They arrived in America in 2000 and now live with their four children in an upscale Denver suburb. Mr. Al-Turki is a graduate student in linguistics at the University of Colorado, specializing in Arabic intonation and focus prosody. He donates money to the Linguistic Society of America and is chief executive of Al-Basheer Publications and Translations, a bookstore specializing in titles about Islam.

    Last week, however, the FBI accused the couple of enslaving an Indonesian woman who is in her early 20s. For four years, reads the indictment, they created "a climate of fear and intimidation through rape and other means." The slave woman cooked, cleaned, took care of the children, and performed other tasks for little or no pay, fearing that if she did not obey, "she would suffer serious harm."

    The two Saudis face charges of forced labor, aggravated sexual abuse, document servitude, and harboring an alien. If found guilty, they could spend the rest of their lives in prison. The government also wants to seize the couple's Al-Basheer bank account to pay their former slave $92,700 in back wages.

    It's shocking, especially for a graduate student and owner of a religious bookstore - but not particularly rare. Here are other examples of enslavement, all involving Saudi royals or diplomats living in America.

    In 1982, a Miami judge issued a warrant to search Prince Turki Bin Abdul Aziz's 24th-floor penthouse to determine if he was holding an Egyptian woman, Nadia Lutefi Mustafa, against her will. Mr. Turki and his French bodyguards prevented a search from taking place, then won retroactive diplomatic immunity to forestall any legal unpleasantness.

    In 1988, the Saudi defense attaché in Washington, Colonel Abdulrahman S. Al-Banyan, employed a Thai domestic worker, Mariam Roungprach, until she escaped his house by crawling out a window. She later said that she had been imprisoned there, did not get enough food, and was not paid. Interestingly, her work contract specified that she could not leave the house or make telephone calls without her employer's permission.

    In 1991, Prince Saad Bin Abdul-Aziz Al Saud and his wife, Princess Noora, lived on two floors of the Ritz-Carlton in Houston. Two of their servants, Josephine Alicog of the Philippines and Sriyani Marian Fernando of Sri Lanka, filed a lawsuit against the prince, alleging they were held for five months against their will, "by means of unlawful threats, intimidation and physical force." They say they were only partially paid, were denied medical treatment, and suffered mental and physical abuse.

    In March 2005, a wife of Saudi Prince Mohamed Bin Turki Alsaud, Hana Al Jader, 39, was arrested at her home near Boston on charges of forced labor, domestic servitude, falsifying records, visa fraud, and harboring aliens. Ms. Al Jader stands accused of forcing two Indonesian women to work for her by making them believe "that if they did not perform such labor, they would suffer serious harm." If convicted, Ms. Al Jader faces up to 140 years in jail and $2.5 million in fines.

    There are many other similar instances, for example, the Orlando escapades of Saudi princesses Maha al-Sudairi and Buniah al-Saud. The writer Joel Mowbray tells of twelve female domestics "trapped and abused" in the households of Saudi dignitaries or diplomats.

    Why is this problem so acute for affluent Saudis? Four reasons come to mind. Although slavery was abolished in the kingdom in 1962, the practice still flourishes there. Ranking Saudi religious authorities endorse slavery; for example, Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan recently that "Slavery is a part of Islam" and whoever wants it abolished is "an infidel."

    The U.S. State Department knows about the forced servitude in Saudi households and laws exist to combat this scourge but, as Mr. Mowbray argues, it "refuses to take measures to combat it." Finally, Saudis know they can get away with nearly any misbehavior. Their embassy provides funds, letters of support, lawyers, retroactive diplomatic immunity, former U.S. ambassadors as troubleshooters, and even aircraft out of the country; it also keeps pesky witnesses away.

    Given the American government's lax attitude toward the Saudis, slavery in Denver, Miami, Washington, Houston, Boston, and Orlando hardly comes as a surprise. Only when Washington more robustly represents American interests will Saudi behavior improve.


  • #2
    lol @ daniel pipes

    are you really trying to not be taken seriously here?
    There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

    Sayyid Qutb

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
      lol @ daniel pipes

      are you really trying to not be taken seriously here?
      lol @ Osama Bin Laden

      Ya, I know this stuff cannot be a serious business for those who are obsessed with Pan-Islam and establishment of an Arab-led Islamist fascist khalafath.

      Comment


      • #4
        daniel pipes hates you and your culture.


        and why are you so obsessed with arabs?
        There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

        Sayyid Qutb

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
          daniel pipes hates you and your culture.


          and why are you so obsessed with arabs?
          because I called him a paki yesterday, he's been on an angst filled diatribe when I equated him with the Heera Mundi hahaha
          [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

          2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
            because I called him a paki yesterday, he's been on an angst filled diatribe when I equated him with the Heera Mundi hahaha
            Who you are man--- the honest son of a dignified Pashtun mother ? Yes I can ascertain you are an Arab supremacist disguised as a Pukhtoon to further Arab interests.
            Last edited by Toramana; 05-20-2012, 09:51 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              is that what they taught you when you were raised in the Heera Mundi? I think that's where this Arab vitriol stems from; those Arab Shaikhs from Saudi wouldn't pull you out of your life in the Lahore slums.


              what can I say to you other than, get over it.
              [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

              2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

              Comment


              • #8
                since we're on the topic; slavery is no more intrinsic to arabs as it is to Pashtuns.

                Pashtuns enslaved many people, Hazaras, hindus, and even some Sikhs, but that is a minority.

                even today, Wealthy Pashtuns do to poor maids what Arabs do to their maids.
                [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                  since we're on the topic; slavery is no more intrinsic to arabs as it is to Pashtuns.

                  Pashtuns enslaved many people, Hazaras, hindus, and even some Sikhs, but that is a minority.

                  even today, Wealthy Pashtuns do to poor maids what Arabs do to their maids.
                  Sikhs were not enslaved by Pashtuns..massacred and killed..yes.. eg during invasions of Abdali, Sikh population suffered several massacres.

                  Most of the population were Muslims and Hindus. Therefore Hindus were targeted for capture as slaves (Muslims were killed when necessary), but Sikhs freed most of the slaves captured by Abdali during night raids on his camps. In retaliation Abdali destroyed the Golden Temple in Amritsar and filled up the pool (sar) with massacred Sikhs. When he had gone, Sikhs rebuilt the temple not long after and captured Pashtuns were made to clean up and refurbish the pool.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                    since we're on the topic; slavery is no more intrinsic to arabs as it is to Pashtuns.

                    Pashtuns enslaved many people, Hazaras, hindus, and even some Sikhs, but that is a minority.

                    even today, Wealthy Pashtuns do to poor maids what Arabs do to their maids.
                    Ive never heard of this.
                    The hazaras that live on pashtun land were left behind by invaders. The Hindus and sikhs were left behind by retreating brits or stayed after the sikhs invaded KP. The people that live on arab land were brought as slaves. The same goes for europe and america. The african population and chinese population that have been there from past were brought as slaves.
                    Culturally, we are very xenophobic, we simply dont like outsiders including slaves.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The article is about one family which may not represent all Arabs but generally I have found Arabs especially of wealthy countries very authoritative, dogmatic , stubborn, arrogant and having lord type mentality. Some Arabs from countries like Yemen, Egypt, Iraq etc are generally humble, meek and not like ones from Saudi, Kuwait, UAE etc.

                      Pashtuns have their own issues especially keeping their women as slaves or prisoners in their houses.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Slavery is abolished, but these Arabs of gulf have still not get used to live without slaves, in such modern times they hire servants from south asian and south east asian countries. I have spent some time in libiya, they are best. But these gulf arabs are one of the most racist people, and also most useless ones.
                        In pakistan, in sindh areas the waderais (who are of baloch origin) keep haris more or less like slaves. In south punjab, the jagirdaars who are mostly ethnic balochs also live like masters.....because balochs conquered and ruled these areas, and baloch consider themeselves superior.
                        Pashtuns are not rough like balochs and have ruled many areas of punjab and rest of india as sophohisticated "nawabs".
                        Centures ago when afghan tribes arrived in present day KP, the area was very depopulated thanks to cruelty of mehmud ghaznavi who was fan of massacring hindus. These remnants of indics were allowed to live among pashtuns on the condition that they would work for pashtuns adopting different professions as afghans were martial people and used to consider "karigari" as not suitable for their status. These indics served pashtuns as karigars i.e as carpenters, ironsmith, shoe-smith, goldsmith , singers/dancers (daman) etc. They were not allowed to own lands , neither they were allowed to marry pashtuns. Still Pashtuns did'nt treat them like shyt. According to pashtunwali Pashtuns were responsible for protection of lives of these servants and an attack/insult on them would be considered attack on pashtun family/clan on whom lands they were living and revenge was sought for them. Loyalty and service was demanded of them but They were never stopped from leaving the service. But it is fact that pashtuns treated these kamayas as inferior to them....interesting thing is that many talibans in swat were from kamaya background and when they came in power under fazlululah, they started targeting landowners and khanans....out of resentment of centuries.
                        I explained this in detail as many of you are not aware of this structure of pashtun society. Though things are not same in 21th century, to compensate for their low social status, these kamayas have surpassed pashtuns in terms of education and jobs. And through status of wealth, they are buying lands as well as marrying pashtun...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wahe Guru View Post
                          Sikhs were not enslaved by Pashtuns..massacred and killed..yes.. eg during invasions of Abdali, Sikh population suffered several massacres.

                          Most of the population were Muslims and Hindus. Therefore Hindus were targeted for capture as slaves (Muslims were killed when necessary), but Sikhs freed most of the slaves captured by Abdali during night raids on his camps. In retaliation Abdali destroyed the Golden Temple in Amritsar and filled up the pool (sar) with massacred Sikhs. When he had gone, Sikhs rebuilt the temple not long after and captured Pashtuns were made to clean up and refurbish the pool.
                          There were some sikh slaves, but probably not many.
                          [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                          2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shadowgoverner
                            all of what you say is non sense buddy.
                            Pashutns owning slaves is a fairytale.
                            Pashtuns never have owned slaves.
                            These people are a bunch of idiot. When Arabs and europeans enslaved africans , they bore children from slave women and then would sell the children as slaves. They sold their own children as slaves just because their mom was a slave. It is against the pashtun culture to do such a thing. Their child is their child no matter who the woman is.

                            Where is the evidence of slavery being intrinsic to pashtun culture? If anything it is the complete opposite.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by osho View Post
                              The article is about one family which may not represent all Arabs but generally I have found Arabs especially of wealthy countries very authoritative, dogmatic , stubborn, arrogant and having lord type mentality. Some Arabs from countries like Yemen, Egypt, Iraq etc are generally humble, meek and not like ones from Saudi, Kuwait, UAE etc.

                              Pashtuns have their own issues especially keeping their women as slaves or prisoners in their houses.
                              show me evidence that pashtuns keep their women as slaves or prisoners.

                              Comment

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