Al Hanif's Shoutbox

[ScimitarXEdge]

No I didn't you mentioned me first; you changed the subject. I keep defeating all you Saudi slaves.

[Al Hanif]

About sufis...

Why do sufis feel the need to rank muslims ?

Also, isn't it shirk to call someone Maulana ?

Can someone tell me what is tawassuf ? When did this practice appeared ? And what are they trying to reach ? Some ecstatic states ?

Why do Sufis create congregations ? Isn't it creating more and more sects ?

Why do they think their master is a better muslim than the lower-ranked sufis ?

Why do sufis live from except from gifts ?

[یاسمینه]

Can someone tell me what is tawassuf ? When did this practice appeared ? And what are they trying to reach ? Some ecstatic states ?
What you call ecstatic, it's something rather to experience, instead of talking about.

Why do Sufis create congregations ? Isn't it creating more and more sects ?
You mean tariqah? Sufi are not a sect.

Why do they think their master is a better muslim than the lower-ranked sufis ?
Because Sufism is hierarchic per se. And "better Muslim" is not the best description. Master has more experience and knows more.

Why do sufis live from except from gifts ?
Sufis are devoted Muslims. They live normal life, like other people and they earn like others.
Also women belong to female Sufi congregations. Normal women who have kids, husbands...

.

[sunni]

^there we got the first suffi in the forum.

[PakistaniAtheist]

then go find the meaning out for urself.

the quran is easy to understand. the bickering is over semantics, the overwhelming amount being nothing that should affect ones belief in the all mighty if they truely believe.

Hi the problem is that my meaning will not be tolerated by other REAL MUSLIMS. Quran is easy for you is watching grown men wrestling in small underwear halal? Maybe it is for you according to your understanding of easy Quran but I am sure some REAL MUSLIMS would want to behead you for it. See I tried that but I ran into this problem. I might find my own understanding but it will not be liked by REAL MUSLIMS so then I will be declared kaffir like Shia Ahmedi Aga Khani Braveli Sufi blown to pieces while praying to Allah by REAL MUSLIMS.

[Al Hanif]

What you call ecstatic, it's something rather to experience, instead of talking about.

I don't think i'm gonna try it. I'm what you call a fundamentalist.

I don't like to be part of any congregation or anything. That would be dividing the muslims into sufis and non-sufis. I don't like this idea. I'm not even a salafi. I'm just a muslim.

You mean tariqah? Sufi are not a sect.

That's exactly what I mean. Dem sects. They pick a master and they sing songs and they whip their head back and forth and they dance and they whirl around...

Because Sufism is hierarchic per se. And "better Muslim" is not the best description. Master has more experience and knows more.

That's what I hate the most about them. That's the same system as in the sects. They have a hierarchy. And I don't like it. By principle.

Sufis are devoted Muslims. They live normal life, like other people and they earn like others.
Also women belong to female Sufi congregations. Normal women who have kids, husbands...

Most of the sufis in Morocco are Aïssawa and they have snakes, they make crazy things.

One thing about sufis is that they are very kind people. I give them that. Very compassionate. But that doesn't mean that I don't condemn what they do.

They think all people are good and they wish good to all humanity. I wonder what a sufi would think if i come in front of him and say that the sahabas beheaded guilty polytheists ?


are you a sufi yourself ? if so, when did you revert to Islam ?

[PakistaniAtheist]

Hi you are so ignorant it gets funnier everytime. That's completely false. The house of Saud are a greater threat to the Ummah than Iran. I don't know if the average Shia is muslim since i've never met one but even if he isn't muslim, he's still better than the Saudis rulers as well as the Pakistani rulers who are apostates.

Saudis funded american war on Iraq, they are the greatest traitors to Islam. The Saudi King is a freemason, he wants to create a global religion.

They imprisoned the Salafis Sheikhs who speak the truth yet most ignorants think that Saudi Rulers = Salafis when actually they are freemasons

Saudi King Abdullah's Interfaith Center in Italy to Unify the World's Religions?, Christian News

Saudis underwrite organization to bring world’s religions under one roof - Beliefnet News

Muammar al-Gaddafi attacking the king of Saudi Arabia in the Doha Summit - YouTube


The best thing is that people like Soldat_Amir and you hate Saudi rulers yet you are apostates like them. It also appears that he hates Pakistani rulers even if they share the same religion as him. Maybe you should kill each others as I know atheists are good to kill each others (remember WWI & WWII) and spare the muslims with your political interests.

Hi I am not the ignorant one. You are the ignorant one you live in a kaffir country enjoying their system while stating you hate everything about them and everything they ever did. Then you say that taqqiya is only Shia thing but here you are doing taqqiya as a Sunni living kaffir country but what you feel truly about them you will never dare tell them your kaffir professor friend employer. So you are no different than Shia taqqiya hypocrite.

Thank god people like you are only like this on the internet in real life you are western product consumer and tax giver. You will never live france for a country like afghanistan. I dare you to do it. If you really believe in heaven and your religion it is so beautiful when you die shaheed then go do it what is stopping you. because you dont believe only you think you believe. I know you are not that stupid. You talk about dajjal but you contribute to dajjal system with your family.

[Al Hanif]

Look Yasmeenaah.

You might think that being a sufi is nothing. That it is not bad in itself but see

Hi the problem is that my meaning will not be tolerated by other REAL MUSLIMS. Quran is easy for you is watching grown men wrestling in small underwear halal? Maybe it is for you according to your understanding of easy Quran but I am sure some REAL MUSLIMS would want to behead you for it. See I tried that but I ran into this problem. I might find my own understanding but it will not be liked by REAL MUSLIMS so then I will be declared kaffir like Shia Ahmedi Aga Khani Braveli Sufi blown to pieces while praying to Allah by REAL MUSLIMS.

if you call yourself sufi, then you are automatically dividing Islam into two parts

that's the problem

and that's a big problem

than can even lead to murder and fitna

that's why i'm a fundamentalist and i call myself a muslim like the sahabas did, no more, no less

[Al Hanif]

Hi I am not the ignorant one. You are the ignorant one you live in a kaffir country enjoying their system while stating you hate everything about them and everything they ever did. Then you say that taqqiya is only Shia thing but here you are doing taqqiya as a Sunni living kaffir country but what you feel truly about them you will never dare tell them your kaffir professor friend employer. So you are no different than Shia taqqiya hypocrite.

'Sup Soldat_Amir ? I don't have Tourettes, i won't spend my time telling all the people what I think about their society. The same way you shut your mouth when you see a muslim in the street. That's not taqiyya. That's not lying, that's shutting your mouth.

Thank god people like you are only like this on the internet in real life you are western product consumer and tax giver. You will never live france for a country like afghanistan. I dare you to do it. If you really believe in heaven and your religion it is so beautiful when you die shaheed then go do it what is stopping you. because you dont believe only you think you believe. I know you are not that stupid. You talk about dajjal but you contribute to dajjal system with your family.

I won't go to Afghanistan yet. Not before I finish my studies and earn some money. Then Insh'Allah I'll go to hunt you and avenge the Chechen babies you and Russian terrorist soldiers slaughtered.

[sunni]

that's why i'm a fundamentalist and i call myself a muslim like the sahabas did, no more, no less

ok i see you saying this alot and i dont know why. but hey you have to know the sahaba didnt do what suffis doing and what shia's doing or believing.

you cant do those things or believe in those things and say i am a muslim like the sahaba call them selfs muslims.


suffi and shia are the two sides of one coin.

ps: im talking about the hardcore suffis

[ScimitarXEdge]

think all people are good and they wish good to all humanity. I wonder what a sufi would think if i come in front of him and say that the sahabas beheaded polytheists ?

are you a sufi yourself ? if so, when did you revert to Islam ?

they would call you an idiot and a liar; the sahaba akram(ra) only attacked people who were doing crimes against Muslims, whoever did not, they left alone.

[Al Hanif]

they would call you an idiot and a liar; the sahaba akram(ra) only attacked people who were doing crimes against Muslims, whoever did not, they left alone.

i did not lied, everybody here knows that they were doing crimes against muslims

the sahabas never killed polytheists just because they were polytheists, they killed guilty people because of their crimes

[PakistaniAtheist]

'Sup Soldat_Amir ? I don't have Tourettes, i won't spend my time telling all the people what I think about their society. The same way you shut your mouth when you see a muslim in the street. That's not taqiyya. That's not lying, that's shutting your mouth.


I won't go to Afghanistan yet. Not before I finish my studies and earn some money. Then Insh'Allah I'll go to hunt you and avenge the Chechen babies you and Russian terrorist soldiers slaughtered.

Hi I close my mouth when I see a mass murdering intolerant muslim that makes perfect sense but i have lived in a muslim country with muslims who knew i was atheist they didnt care that is because they were not Pathans they live and let live. Make sure you pay taxes on that money you earn dajjal will be very happy.

[MohannaD]

Al Hanif

Brother please stop writing about who's Muslim and who's not , you can't just simply say this or that person is not Muslim .

[یاسمینه]

I don't think i'm gonna try it. I'm what you call a fundamentalist.
No one forces you to anything.
I don't like to be part of any congregation or anything. That would be dividing the muslims into sufis and non-sufis. I don't like this idea. I'm not even a salafi. I'm just a muslim.
But you aren't one of Sufis so ...?
They don't divide Muslims. They are a part of Muslims.


That's exactly what I mean. Dem sects. They pick a master and they sing songs and they whip their head back and forth and they dance and they whirl around...
Sufi master isn't picked. It's more complicated. Becoming a master is almost a lifetime process.
Some Sufi dance and whirl, some don't...Whirling Dervishes aren't the only one Sufi congregation.

Sufi tariqah - there are few main like Chishti, Naqshbandi etc. Why different tariqah? Because Sufism was shaping up in different areas, among Muslims with different traditions, on remote areas.
Look at Muslims from Brunei and for example from Morocco. They look different, they don't behave exactly in the same way but both are Muslims.


That's what I hate the most about them. That's the same system as in the sects. They have a hierarchy. And I don't like it. By principle.

Why do you hate? English, not my fav language though, has many other words to describe something you don't like. The same in French. Unless you use this word intentionally, to spread hatred.
People can discuss using logical arguments and proper words.
Going back to your querry. Hierarchy isn't typical for sects only.
Look at traditional familiy system. Isn't is hierarchic? Is there no hierarchy in royal families, governments? Hierarchy brings some order in life. Some people are addicted to power, some misinterpret or abuse it. But hierarchy per se has nothing to do with.
You may not like hierarchy by principle - your right. But do't forget that being a Sufi is not forced. People have a choice. And if they follow this path, it means this hierarchy corresponds to them.


Most of the sufis in Morocco are Aïssawa and they have snakes, they make crazy things.
And why does it bother you? DO they interfere in your life? Let them live their own life.
Mayby it's my wrong impression, but I think your knowledge about Sufism is a bit superficial and based on stereotypes.

One thing about sufis is that they are very kind people. I give them that. Very compassionate. But that doesn't mean that I don't condemn what they do.
Why is so easy for you to speak so authoritatively?

They think all people are good and they wish good to all humanity. I wonder what a sufi would think if i come in front of him and say that the sahabas beheaded guilty polytheists ?
Would you really do that? For what?

are you a sufi yourself ? if so, when did you revert to Islam ?
Why do you need to know it? To classify me or to talk to me in different way? Or maybe to judge me?
It's internet. Some anonymity is acceptable.

Why are you so deeply concerned about life of other people? Sometimes I have impression you pretend to be the only perfect. Are you?
If you really are, chapeau bas.