Al Hanif's Shoutbox

[Al Hanif]

They don't divide Muslims. They are a part of Muslims.

The very thing of calling yourself a Sufi is inherently dividing muslims into two distinct groups. The 'sufis' and the 'non-sufis'.

So they are dividing muslims, don't tell me that they are not.

The word 'sufi' appeared way after the death of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). If I decided to create my own word, let's say "oogahbooga" and if I called myself an "oogahboogah" and if I said that if you say 54 times "glory be to Allah" and 12 times "Allah is the greatest", then you are an "oogahboogah" like me, and if after I died, people started emulating me for centuries and asking me in my grave for help, that would be the same thing.

Allah SWT has said, in the eternal, perfect and uncreated Noble Qur'an

Nor are (alike) the living and the dead. Verily, Allah makes whom He will hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves. [Al-Fatir 35:22]

Is there any better evidence for the futility and prohibition of asking of the pious people of the grave ?

sufi master isn't picked. It's more complicated. Becoming a master is almost a lifetime process.
Some Sufi dance and whirl, some don't...Whirling Dervishes aren't the only one Sufi congregation.

Sufi tariqah - there are few main like Chishti, Naqshbandi etc. Why different tariqah? Because Sufism was shaping up in different ares, among Muslims with different traditions, on remote areas.
Look at Muslims from Brunei and for example from Morocco. Their look different, they don't behave exactly in the same way but both are Muslims.

I deeply reject all of this. Why do I reject all of this ? Because if Sufis did not existed, you wouldn't have people blowing up themselves in Pakistan or Afghanistan to kill as much Sufis as possible. You have created those practises with your own hands, I let you the pleasure to explain it to Allah SWT in the day of judgment. I don't say that you Sufis are not muslims or that we should kill you. I condemn the killing of people without judgment but i'm just warning you because dividing muslims into groups is automatically creating fitna. I would never attack physically a Sufi in my life but I deeply condemn your practises and the way you call yourselves. The same way I condemn people calling themselves Shias, the people calling themselves Salafis, the people calling themselves Sunnis...

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never did this. And he is the best example for mankind, trillions of times better than any Sufi, any Salafi or any Shia.

You and other Sufis may argue that it was because of Sufism you have come to Islam. I can easily debunk your point as PakistaniAtheist says one of the reasons he rejects Islam is because of sectarism and "TRUE MUSLIMS killing Sufis and Shias".

Why do you hate? English, not my fav language though, has many other words to describe something you don't like. The same in French. Unless you use this word intentionally, to spread hatred.
People can discuss using logical arguments and proper words.
Going back to your querry. Hierarchy isn't typical for sects only.
Look at traditional familiy system. Isn't is hierarchic? Is there no hierarchy in royal families, governments? Hierarchy brings some order in life. Some people are addicted to power, sotme misinterpret or abuse it. But hierarchy per se has nothing to do with.
You may don't like hierarchy by principle - your right. But do't forget that being a Sufi is not forced. People have a choice. And if they follow this path, it means this hierarchy corresponds to them.

I hate what they do and I don't hide it. I don't hate them, I hate what they do. My hate is inoffensive but when I see people blowing themselves up in Pakistan or Afghanistan to get rid of Sufis, I ask myself. Who started this in the first place and the answer is quite clear. So don't expect me to say that those terrorists are bad people. Because it is obvious. If anything, they are just as bad as the ones who started worshipping Allah SWT in their own ways, not the same ways as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did, nor Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did and started calling themselves a particular type of muslims.

And why does it bother you? DO they interfere in your life? Let them live their own life.
Mayby it's my wrong impression, but I think your knowledge about Sufism is a bit superficial and based on stereotypes.

It's just a reminder. It doesn't bother me if my neighbour is sacrificing chickens to Satan every night. It's just an advice of mine. May Allah SWT bless you and all the Sufis and guide you to the straight path. Ameen.

Would you really do that? For what?

If Allah SWT asked me to kill my own son, I would do it. Without a doubt. Never heard of the sacrifice of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) ?

Why are you so deeply concerned about life of other people? Sometimes I have impression you pretend to be the only perfect. Are you?
If you really are, chapeau bas.

I am not perfect, I am far from it but I urge you to stop following misguided people and promoting their innovations and stick to what Allah SWT has revealed.

Why is so easy for you to speak so authoritatively ?

I can give you some lectures about Sufis from authentic scholars with dalil from Kitab and Sunnah. But it would be boring.

It was just an advice. I am not here to spread hatred. Take it or leave it.

[یاسمینه]

@Al Hanif - your last post made me speechless (only for a while).

Sufis are not only in Afghanistan and Pakistan. So I wouldn't say that the presence of Sufis is the reason of Af-Pak conflict.

You say that there is a deep rift between Sufi and non-Sufi and that it affects the unity of Muslim world. What about Pashtuns? Their presence also divide people for Pashtuns and non Pashtuns. Both are Muslims, but not every Muslim is a Pashtun. Will you then neglect Pashtuns as a nation, ehtnic group etc?

Thank you for your concerns about my person. But please, let me follow my path, whatever this path is.

[MohannaD]

First things first, Will the MOD's take notice of Al hanifs Sectarian nature.

Secondly, why is this forum being used as a Anti Shia Propaganda centre by Non Pashtuns and Pakistanis.

Sufism is an indegenous belief system in the Pashtun belt, nobody heard of Wahabism as a whole until it came from Arabia during the Soviet War.

Most of the Pashtun legends especially the likes of Mullah Powinda of Waziristan, were mosly Sufis.

They were couragous men who would never sell their land to any Muslim/Non Muslim.

Wahabism is something and Sufism is something else .

More can be read on Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism


For those connecting Sufism with Islam neither Alqur'an nor Assunnah asked people to do the weird dancing and movements found in Sufism .

[MohannaD]

I didn't like the poll question , it shouldn't be about liking or disliking individuals . It should've been (are you with or against Sufism ? are you interested or not ... etc ) .
Moreover an introduction or a link to information about Sufism would've been helpful , I don't think every member knows or has a clear idea about Sufism .

[Afghanistan2010]

hahahahahah

this scimitaronEdge to hell fled the thread.....hahahahaha


for sure he is among the loosers.

[Afghanistan2010]

Hi the problem is that my meaning will not be tolerated by other REAL MUSLIMS. Quran is easy for you is watching grown men wrestling in small underwear halal? Maybe it is for you according to your understanding of easy Quran but I am sure some REAL MUSLIMS would want to behead you for it. See I tried that but I ran into this problem. I might find my own understanding but it will not be liked by REAL MUSLIMS so then I will be declared kaffir like Shia Ahmedi Aga Khani Braveli Sufi blown to pieces while praying to Allah by REAL MUSLIMS.

okay there are atheists who say we dont know there is god and there are atheist say who completely reject the existence of god, they say you are fake atheist?
then you will convert to budhism ?

lol you are stupid.

[sunni]

Yasmeenaah & whoever is talking BS and saying don't judge or something like that....how on earth we know this is right or wrong if we didn't judge it ?

this is stupid .......

whats this ?
suffi not islam - YouTube
crazy Sufi darwesh in kurdistan - YouTube
9th Moharum Mehfil 2 of 2 - YouTube
Ziker Mehfil - YouTube


did the sahaba or the prophet did anything like this ?

SHAME ON SUFFI'S AND SHAME ON EVERY STUPID MUSLIM SAYING DON'T JUDGE THIS THING'S.
if we didn't judge you may were one of them or one of the shia you idiot.

[sunni]

Wahabism is something and Sufism is something else .

More can be read on Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism


For those connecting Sufism with Islam neither Alqur'an nor Assunnah asked people to do the weird dancing and movements found in Sufism .

what's wahabism ? who are they ?why do you call them wahabism? where did this word come from? when this all happen.............etc
tell me everything NOW.

[Al Hanif]

Sufis are not only in Afghanistan and Pakistan. So I wouldn't say that the presence of Sufis is the reason of Af-Pak conflict.

I never said Sufis are the reason of Afghan-Pakistan conflict.

The reason of Afghan-Pakistan conflict is American interference in world affairs.

What I said is that Sufis are splitting the Ummah into two parts by calling themselves Sufis and differentiating themselves from other muslims. Thus they have a huge responsibility for the bloodshed in situations like this :



April 3, 2011: Pakistan Sufi shrine suicide attack kills 41

July 1, 2010: Suicide bombers detonated at the Data Ganj Bakhsh shrine in Lahore, killing 41 people and wounding more than 170.

May 28, 2010: The Punjabi Taliban assaulted two Ahamadi mosques in Lahore, killing more than 70 people.

Dec. 18, 2009: A suicide bomber detonated inside a mosque frequented by policemen in Lower Dir, killing 12.

Dec. 4, 2009: A suicide assault team stormed a mosque in Rawalpindi that is frequented by Army officers, killing 40.

Oct. 20, 2009: A pair of suicide bombers detonated their vests at Islamabad's International Islamic University, killing five.

June 12, 2009: A suicide bomber killed five Pakistanis, including anti-Taliban cleric Dr. Sarfraz Naeemi, in an attack on a mosque in Lahore during Friday prayers.

June 12, 2009: A suicide bomber killed six worshipers and wounded more than 90 in an attack inside a mosque in Nowshera. The attack collapsed the dome of the mosque.

June 5, 2009: A suicide bomber killed 49 worshipers in an attack on a mosque in a remote village in Dir.

April 5, 2009: A suicide bomber killed 24 worshipers and wounded more than 100 in an attack outside a Shia religious center in the Chakwal district in Punjab province.

March 27, 2009: A Taliban suicide bomber killed more than 70 worshipers and wounded more than 125 in an attack at a mosque in the Khyber tribal agency.

March 5, 2009: An attacker threw a hand grenade into the middle of a mosque in Dera Ismail Khan, wounding 25 worshipers.

March 2, 2009: A suicide bomber killed six people during an attack at a gathering in a mosque in the Pishin district in Baluchistan.

Feb. 20, 2008: A suicide bomber killed 32 Pakistanis and wounded more than 85 in an attack on a funeral procession for a Shia elder who was murdered in Dera Ismail Khan.

Feb. 5, 2009: A suicide attack outside a mosque killed more than 30 Shia worshipers and wounded more than 50.

Nov. 22, 2008: A bombing at a mosque in Hangu killed five civilians and wounded seven.

Nov. 21, 2008: A suicide attack on a funeral procession in Dera Ismail Khan killed 10 mourners and wounded more than 25.

Sept. 10, 2008: The Taliban attacked a mosque filled with Ramadan worshipers in the district of Dir in northwestern Pakistan. More than 25 worshipers were killed and more than 50 were wounded.

Aug. 19, 2008: A suicide bomber killed 29 Shia mourners and wounded 35 after detonating in the emergency ward of a hospital.

June 17, 2008: Four Pakistanis were killed and three wounded in a bombing at a Shia mosque in Dera Ismail Khan.

May 19, 2008: Four Pakistanis were killed in a bombing outside a mosque in Bajaur.

Jan. 17, 2008: A suicide bomber killed 10 and wounded 25 in an attack on a Shia mosque in Peshawar.

Dec. 28, 2007: A suicide bomber detonated in the middle of a mosque in Charsadda in an attempt to kill former Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao as he conducted Eid prayers. More than 50 were killed and more than 200 were wounded.

You say that there is a deep rift between Sufi and non-Sufi and that it affects the unity of Muslim world. What about Pashtuns? Their presence also divide people for Pashtuns and non Pashtuns. Both are Muslims, but not every Muslim is a Pashtun. Will you then neglect Pashtuns as a nation, ehtnic group etc?

Of course racial differences affect the coherence of the Ummah. Some people who are not part of the Ummah (like Toramana) are stressing those differences to destroy the unity of the Ummah. It is the cunning of Satan to divide muslims by any way possible (may Allah SWT curse him). There is already so much hatred between muslims. Because of ignorance and because of those people who don't make correct takfir and start mixing with non-muslims. Does that mean that we are allowed to add fuel to the fire by creating more and more sects, more and more subdivisions, more and more differences ?

Thank you for your concerns about my person. But please, let me follow my path, whatever this path is.

The Prophet (pbuh) was sent by Allah SWT to destroy all intermediaries between The Creator and his Creation. To restore the simple link that exists between Allah SWT and his slave. No more idols, no superiority of one upon another. No hierarchy. We are all equal, no matter what is your race, your social status or the amount of money you have on your bank account. We all pray next to our brothers. Black, White, Rich, Poor.

When a Sufi master is waiting for somone to kiss his hand, when he accepts that other Sufis bow down to him, he is breaking the simplicity and beauty of Islam.

When a Sufi calls himself Maulana, he is being proud and you know that people with the lowest pride will never enter to heaven according to a hadith.

The prophet (pbuh) called hismelf the slave of Allah SWT, his servant and he bowed down to Allah SWT. Are they following his teachings ?

When Sufis are asking someone in a shrine for help, they are implying that this man can hear which is contrary to the Qur'an. They are giving him superior powers, non-human powers, they are making him a god for being able to hear more than 2 voices at the same time while being dead.

[Toramana]

Wahabi terrorists bigots are the gravest threat to humanity.

[Afghanistan2010]

Asalam alykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

i dont care (my vote)

Tasawuf and Tawasul were greatly explained by numerous scholars and its true meaning like Mufti Taqi Usmani (hz) a respected scholar across the islamic world.

Mufti Taqi Usmani - Tasawwuf - YouTube[/URL]

these sufis have many errors and contradictions in their ideology and they make division among ahlus sunnah,and some among them commit open shirk while they think its is allowed.

but there are some topics which are explained by the scholars and not everything is wrong.

likewise you can make tawasul with your good deeds and the similar.

[Catya Sher]

Valuable discussion to make everyone look
much more deeply at things that are often
passively
taken for granted, perhaps due to
affiliation of ancestors with some lineages of Sufis.

People should examine carefully and make
wise decisions before blindly following
where others lead them.

[badmash_khel]

Some of my elders say that every Afghan/Pashtun area used to have a Pir, sort of like a guide. These Pirs commanded great respect and people would consult them for advice in conflicts and disputes. They were trusted because they had a reputation for piousness and leading simple lives.

I have great respect for Sufi thought and the way they look at things.

[Afghanistan2010]

It has changed since the take over of the islamic emirate....our pir,mir,amir is Mullah Umar (hz).

[badmash_khel]

^
Maybe your pir, not mine. It will never change. Taliban and similar movements will come and go. The message of Islam and its eternal truths are not dependent on Taliban or Mullah Umar.

just out of intreset, where can i find a biography, speeches and ideas of mullah umar. I want to know more about this man? thanks