Stoning to Death

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Your assumptions is that Mohammed´s conversation with God via Jibrail really happened and GOD really spoke to Mohammed. There is no proof for that and thats why it is called BELIEVE and not FACT!

OK so once again, do you believe that this conversation happened? If so, how do you reconcile the fact that a Man who spoke to God brought this as Gods law per your belief system?

[ScimitarXEdge]

so when are all the pro hand cutters and stone throwers moving back to afghanistan, to live a true muslim life?

when the global hegemony that interferes with the viability of our envvironment is no longer capable of interfering with it.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Besides, per the SEAL raid they proved they could have killed him without invading. That is not relevant here. Here we are making a decision... Mustafa is claiming he is a Prophet.. he has brought a revelation that he says overturns the rajm and the hand cutting. WE are asking him for his proofs.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The Mangals revolted many times against the kings, Ulamas and Sultanats, too.

Having a free mind is about being Mangal

That's a lie because most of their revolts were instrumented by Ulama, especially the ones against Amanullah

if being a mangal was about having a free mind...yours wouldn't be petitioning for farangyan

[randolph85]

if bin laden had killed 3000 africans in some rural part of an african nation, no one would say a thing. hit the wtc and the pentagon and its the worst thing to ever happen in the history of history. the french can kill hundreds of thousands of algerians and no one bats an eye, they still visit that ugly tower in paris and think of the french as gentlemen.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Your assumptions is that Mohammed´s conversation with God via Jibrail really happened and GOD really spoke to Mohammed. There is no proof for that and thats why it is called BELIEVE and not FACT!

there's actually more evidence that Muhammad(saw) had some sort of "beyond worldy" experience, than Pashto and Pashtuns as an ethnicity being more than 1000 years old.

[Daniel]

This is false; only willful participants can be concubines. Hence no rape can occur; and such events only happened with people who had loose sexual values anyways. Therefore their womenfolk were already degraded by their culture and entertained such things

We condemn rape of Afghan women because rape is intrusion of women who respect themselves. It's not like American women who are general tramps. These are decent moral women who have dignity.

Interesting Ive never read that you have to give women a choice whether to become your slave or not and it seems even more absurd that women actually agreed to that, please enlighten me more on this

I do agree with you condemning rape tough, again Im simply trying to highlight ethical hypocrisy

[ScimitarXEdge]

if bin laden had killed 3000 africans in some rural part of an african nation, no one would say a thing. hit the wtc and the pentagon and its the worst thing to ever happen in the history of history. the french can kill hundreds of thousands of algerians and no one bats an eye, they still visit that ugly tower in paris and think of the french as gentlemen.

exactly, it's an issue of one party feeling entitled

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The bottom line of this whole discussion is that Mustafa has proven 1 thing and admitted a major thing: He disagrees with Islam.

That is fine, but now, every one of his advocated positions will be taken in light of this viewpoint. He has basically hamstrung himself with his own initiated discussion. He represents an absurdly small minority viewpoint within the Pashtun culture and his references/statements can be all be filtered with that knowledge. Next Schill please.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Interesting Ive never read that you have to give women a choice whether to become your slave or not and it seems even more absurd that women actually agreed to that, please enlighten me more on this

I do agree with you condemning rape tough, again Im simply trying to highlight ethical hypocrisy

In Islam you can't coerce sex with anyone. Even your wife.

It may seem absurd, but if these women were loose to begin with, they usually wouldn't care

I doubt Paris Hilton would put up much resistance. LOL

[unknownprince]

Besides, per the SEAL raid they proved they could have killed him without invading. That is not relevant here. Here we are making a decision... Mustafa is claiming he is a Prophet.. he has brought a revelation that he says overturns the rajm and the hand cutting. WE are asking him for his proofs.

It is people like Mustafa, who in fact are rare types if not outright non-existent who want to erase Islam from Afghanistan. These same people try to then foolishly place pashtunwali above Islam, but this clearly shows they nothing about pashtunwali because even that does not serve their interests. Lets consider that for a sec. Even Pashtunwali goes against all their plans.

Basically, in vain they continue to try to tell Afghans that one should accept a US occupation. They know that this will never happen, so why do you think he needs to come here to get his frustrations out?

This only leaves questions since even Ahmad Shah Masood was deadly against the foreigners as well as every Afghan.

SO many polls show Afghan hatred, opposition, and resentment to the US presence, and Im not only talking about Southern and Eastern Pashtun strongholds, but also the Northern regions where there are many non-pashtun Muslims.


Point is one should always question these people.

Isn't it clear how much hatred this person has for Afghan and Islamic culture, both of which instill opposition and resentment to foreign aggressors.

[randolph85]

Interesting Ive never read that you have to give women a choice whether to become your slave or not and it seems even more absurd that women actually agreed to that, please enlighten me more on this

I do agree with you condemning rape tough, again Im simply trying to highlight ethical hypocrisy

it would also seem absurd that people agree to be slaves. though, in islam, the master and slave had the same rights and if the master ate well then so did the slave, if the master dressed well, so did the slave. slavery in islam is not like "roots", people were not beaten and deprived of their humanity. the slaves were also offered their freedoms, though many would not accept this because slavery in islam meant job security, like today. they were better off as slaves than free people. being a slave meant being a part of the family, basically.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This is the way to deal with these guys. Let them dig their own intellectual grave. The reason why they hesitate to openly state in clear bolded letters their view on Islam is that they know that its a minority viewpoint that they hold... and that within the majority rural Pashtun populace's viewpoint, they should be put on a donkey and have makh thauraul done to them if they were to state such things openly. By logical extension then, we know that they do not speak for the rural Pashtuns at all. Even Karzai has more legitimacy than them and would disown their viewpoints. In fact, he wouldnt want to be seen within 2 feet of Mostafa in Helmand if Mostafa published his views. That more than anything shows that Mustafa is an advocate for SUBVERSION of the autonomy of Pashtuns rather than independence for and by them.

[Daniel]

In Islam you can't coerce sex with anyone. Even your wife.

It may seem absurd, but if these women were loose to begin with, they usually wouldn't care

I doubt Paris Hilton would put up much resistance. LOL

This cleric would disagree with you (the vids title may seem partisan against Islam but do watch, he adduces Sahih Hadith for his views)

‪Raping Women is O.K...‬‏ - YouTube

Is there anything in Quran or Sahih Hadith that prohibits rape? I havent seen it in Quran....

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This cleric would disagree with you (the vids title may seem partisan against Islam but do watch, he adduces Sahih Hadith for his views)

‪Raping Women is O.K...‬‏ - YouTube

Is there anything in Quran or Sahih Hadith that prohibits rape? I havent seen it in Quran....

THis discussion can be had in the religion section and a new thread can be opened. This thread is about stoning and who agrees/disagrees.