Stoning to Death

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well, I am Afghan and I know many Afghans who share my point of view and alot who do not.

Is Afghan sociaty for an ideal and homogen entity where everyone is as muslim as you?

The ones who agree with you are traitors and lackeys of European indoctrination and are in complete contradiction to the normative values held by Afghans though

YOu're on the fringe of society, if that

[MostafaM]

the problem with Mostafa is that he thinks that america have an intrinsic right in this matter; that they are automatically entitled.


man the Mangals who role up against the Briitish even though they knew the British would retaliate against them for doing so would be turning in their grave

It was the Mangal tribe that fought for everything we're trying to uphold now and now one of their one shuns all that and betrays it for the other side.

The Mangals revolted many times against the kings, Ulamas and Sultanats, too.

Having a free mind is about being Mangal

[MostafaM]

do we agree that America and it's Imperial kin have been interfering and creating problems in the Middle East for several centuries?

I do.

Do we agree that Bin Laden didn´t trap the US in Yemen or Saudi Arabia but in Afghanistan to achieve his goals?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well, I am Afghan and I know many Afghans who share my point of view and alot who do not.

Is Afghan sociaty for an ideal and homogen entity where everyone is as muslim as you?

Lets not deviate. Thats now what the thread discussion was about. You basically proved my first point here and exposed yourself. You asked simply: Is stoning right or wrong.

People use a criteria for right and wrong. Some use your criteria and others use this religious standard you may have heard of... called Islam. So the people who follow this faith, called Muslims would tell you:
First of all, is the first thing you ask an American: hey do you like to electric chair people all day? Thats not the first thing on their mind... its their constitution, their state governments, their day to day functioning. Penal codes come into play later.

For the Muslim, a certain man, a Prophet of God utilized stoning and stated it was prescribed from the One God.

You are telling them: Hey whats the deal, you like stoning. They are telling you, its revealed by God. You in turn retort: I know more than God.

Trust me, even the Panjshiris wouldnt accept that. Ahmad Shah Mossoud himself, despite my dissapproval of his general actions would never have agreed that you, Mustafa1919 know more than God.

[ScimitarXEdge]

not to take sides with the salafis, which i am not, but the war began decades before 9/11, even centuries before if we are to count the western world into the whole 9/11 spectrum. as it was not just america who invaded and occupied iraq and afghanistan, but nations who have been involved in the occupation and destabilization of muslim lands for hundreds of years.

exactly, I dont side with with the Salafis or Taliban not because they're fighting against an Imperial global hegemony, but because their tactics are self destructive.

[faye]

so when are all the pro hand cutters and stone throwers moving back to afghanistan, to live a true muslim life?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I do.

Do we agree that Bin Laden didn´t trap the US in Yemen or Saudi Arabia but in Afghanistan to achieve his goals?

Per his most astute analyist, Michael Scheuer, of the CIA Bin Ladin unit he did attempt to fight them in Saudi first. And then he attempted to do so from Sudan.

But once again, open another thread to discuss Mr. Bin Ladin.

This thread is about you explaining why your way is better than Muhammad ibn Abdullah (S)'s. You have to make your case to a massive proportion of the AFghan populace as to how you recieved a new revelation that replaced the Quran.

[Daniel]

First post, hi everyone Im a soldier soon to be deployed to Afghanistan and Im simply trying to learn about the culture there

Once again, you started this stupid thread, answer my question:

If stoning is wrong, why did Muhammad (S) do it? Its a simple question, why are you avoiding answering it saiba?

I dont intend to offend anyone here but your moral criterion seems to be Islam and your only justification is Allah says its ok but I present you a problem.... according to Islam, war rape (via taking female captives as slaves) is perfectly fine even with married women

See Sahih Muslim here Book 008, Number 3432:
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

Also see Tafsir Ibn Kathir (most prominent Tafsir of Quran as you probably know)
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

So now the problem is, why do you condemn rape of your Afghan women when according to Islam not only rape but sexual slavery is fine (note Im not at all trying to justify rape which I find absolutely abhorrent but Im merely highlighting ethical hypocrisy here).

[MostafaM]

Lets not deviate. Thats now what the thread discussion was about. You basically proved my first point here and exposed yourself. You asked simply: Is stoning right or wrong.

People use a criteria for right and wrong. Some use your criteria and others use this religious standard you may have heard of... called Islam. So the people who follow this faith, called Muslims would tell you:
First of all, is the first thing you ask an American: hey do you like to electric chair people all day? Thats not the first thing on their mind... its their constitution, their state governments, their day to day functioning. Penal codes come into play later.

For the Muslim, a certain man, a Prophet of God utilized stoning and stated it was prescribed from the One God.

You are telling them: Hey whats the deal, you like stoning. They are telling you, its revealed by God. You in turn retort: I know more than God.

Trust me, even the Panjshiris wouldnt accept that. Ahmad Shah Mossoud himself, despite my dissapproval of his general actions would never have agreed that you, Mustafa1919 know more than God.

Your assumptions is that Mohammed´s conversation with God via Jibrail really happened and GOD really spoke to Mohammed. There is no proof for that and thats why it is called BELIEVE and not FACT!

[ScimitarXEdge]

I do.

Do we agree that Bin Laden didn´t trap the US in Yemen or Saudi Arabia but in Afghanistan to achieve his goals?

No, because 9/11 didnt happen in Afghanistan. IT was America's own arrogance that they can intrude on everyone but no one can intrude America that motivated the rest.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

so when are all the pro hand cutters and stone throwers moving back to afghanistan, to live a true muslim life?

No one is pro anything. This discussion is simply about how one views it in a bottomless pit. If you, me, and Mustafa1919 are in a bottomless bit somewhere and we are discussing what God revealed a Muslim would, per the documentation be wrong if he said that the Quran did not prescribe hand cutting and that the sunnah did not prescribe rajm. The notion of whether it needs to be done or not or where is irrelevent.

Its like asking: Do you think the electric chair as a death penalty is right or wrong. So we are discussing it.

For that matter, since I am not a thief or an adulterer, yes I would be happy to live under such laws.

Are you an adulterer or a thief to contradict God? If so? WHo cares? You admit that you are not a Muslim. We accept that. But you have no right to enforce your laws on Muslim states.

[randolph85]

so when are all the pro hand cutters and stone throwers moving back to afghanistan, to live a true muslim life?

when the pro rapists and thieves leave

[MostafaM]

No, because 9/11 didnt happen in Afghanistan. IT was America's own arrogance that they can intrude on everyone but no one can intrude America that motivated the rest.

‪Osama bin Laden‬‏ - YouTube

You must be fluent in Arabic, aren´t you?

[ScimitarXEdge]

First post, hi everyone Im a soldier soon to be deployed to Afghanistan and Im simply trying to learn about the culture there



I dont intend to offend anyone here but your moral criterion seems to be Islam and your only justification is Allah says its ok but I present you a problem.... according to Islam, war rape (via taking female captives as slaves) is perfectly fine even with married women

See Sahih Muslim here Book 008, Number 3432:
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

Also see Tafsir Ibn Kathir (most prominent Tafsir of Quran as you probably know)
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

So now the problem is, why do you condemn rape of your Afghan women when according to Islam not only rape but sexual slavery is fine (note Im not at all trying to justify rape which I find absolutely abhorrent but Im merely highlighting ethical hypocrisy here).

This is false; only willful participants can be concubines. Hence no rape can occur; and such events only happened with people who had loose sexual values anyways. Therefore their womenfolk were already degraded by their culture and entertained such things

We condemn rape of Afghan women because rape is intrusion of women who respect themselves. It's not like American women who are general tramps. These are decent moral women who have dignity.

[ScimitarXEdge]

‪Osama bin Laden‬‏ - YouTube

You must be fluent in Arabic, aren´t you?

I saw this, and again it was America's own pompousness that drove them to invade

their thinking is "we own this planet ..and everyone must comply"