Jinnah, an armchair politician

[dawn]

all the bright sindhis went to India in 47, they are doing great things there mainly in business, actually the current Sindhi population is heavily mixed with Baloch and the baloch culture has clearly penetrated in Sindhis now

I know, these were mostly sindhi hindus from trading castes. Now majority of hindus left in Sindh are tribals. While sindhi muslims are either waderas or peasants mostly. They need unfair quota system to get any job, main reason MQM got so much popular. Sindhi hindus were basically like muslim gujarati memons who are influential in Karachi. Jinnah himself was Gujarati memon born in Karachi.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

You are a disgusting human. He greatly advanced the extent of the pakhtun race. His only mistake was not nipping the sikh problem in the bud.

He also aligned with Nadir Shah Qoli and drove the Hotak (my clan) from Kandahar. eff him.

[Elite Pakhtun]

He also aligned with Nadir Shah Qoli and drove the Hotak (my clan) from Kandahar. eff him.

Okay, fair enough. You have a very valid reason to dislike him.

[Samandri]

He greatly advanced the extent of the pakhtun race. His only mistake was not nipping the sikh problem in the bud.

Not a mistake or carelessness on his part, he dedicated all of his energies to curb the Sikh insurgency but it was beyond his capabilities........even a great administrator and dictator of Delhi , Najibuddaula Yousafzai, had to admit his helplessness against Sikhs in his last years despite scoring victories against Sikhs in every battle in Hariyana and western U.P...........The Sikhs that Abdali was fighting, were survivors of desperate war with Mughals. There was a bounty of few rupees on their heads and they were hunted down every where by Mughals. This way they got uprooted from their lands and adopted themselves to mobile life on horses and in camps, like dacoits , and survived on highway robberies and on marauding villages. Religious fanaticism kept them going and kept them highly united. The newly installed Afghan governors from Afghanistan were totally unfamiliar with Punjab and were at disadvantage in curbing this widespread insurgency.......they were also not good administrators , they were soldiers.

I understand the sentiments of Ifreetzai but in my opinion Abdali tribe had no say in Nadir Quli's decision of uprooting Hotaks from Kandahar and exiling them to Khorasan....Hotaks being rulers were bound to be destroyed by Nadir Quli who was punishing them for what they did to Safavid royal family in Persia. Abdalis of Herat also fought against Nadir Quli but got defeated and were exiled by Nadir Shah to Khorasan. Friendship offer was extended to Abdalis which they accepted (or else they would have faced destruction) , the same kindness was not shown to Hotaks for the above mentioned reason. The other clans of Ghilzais ( Tokhi and others) were treated in same manner like Abdalis , so that one of the general of Nadir Shah , Azad Khan, was a Ghilzai from Sulieman Khel tribe.

[Samandri]

I know, these were mostly sindhi hindus from trading castes. Now majority of hindus left in Sindh are tribals. While sindhi muslims are either waderas or peasants mostly. They need unfair quota system to get any job, main reason MQM got so much popular. Sindhi hindus were basically like muslim gujarati memons who are influential in Karachi. Jinnah himself was Gujarati memon born in Karachi.

The Sindhi Hindus, who were 25% of population of the province, were forced by Indian-Mohajirs to migrate towards India.....Unlike Punjab where rioting were taking place, the Sindhi Hindus were not eager to migrate towards India.........and thus Sindhi nation lost their most useful people and in return received alien Biharis and UPwalas who would make Sindh suffocating for them later.

[Porus]

Sure that may have been his campaign, but historical evidence suggests that he had a secular nation in mind as a homeland for muslims in the subcontinent. Yes pakistani means being Muslim.

So basically, if you aren't Muslim means you can't be Pakistani. Or if you're a Pakistani Christian, it's like being a Muslim-Christian.

This is why it confuses me. It's a secular state but with religion infused in its identity. Let's see where it goes.

No, Muslim league didn't make a coalition. They won initially, but congress, dal sc*m, and unionists formed a coalition. Muslim League wasn't part of this coalition. Out of 175 seats, muslim league won 73. They won other provinces as you pointed out, and started the process of separating.

That's what I meant, Akalis, congress and unionists formed a coalition and won the majority seats. Muslims didn't just vote for the league either.

Hardly a bitch move. He wasn't the pioneer of a muslim state. He just got the job done. Muslims demanded separation, he managed to make it happen. He was also not wrong... I still maintain separation would still be better than a unified state.

He got the job done without even writing a constitution lol. I don't know what's better actually, I would've preferred being unified but now that we've separated we've gotta deal with it.

How did he not stand by muslims? Just because he didn't want to live like the commoner?

No, he just made a country and died. That was his only mistake.

No. People like Ataturk didn't do this relinquish possessions and live with the poor thing, yet they're thought to have cared for their people. There's probably 1000s who lived this poor life and failed in their political goals.

Fair point, I'll take it.

[Porus]

He greatly advanced the extent of the pakhtun race. His only mistake was not nipping the sikh problem in the bud.

lol what's your problem with Sikhs? They're good people.

[Kakar-Wardak]

He greatly advanced the extent of the pakhtun race. His only mistake was not nipping the sikh problem in the bud.

You have to give it to the Sikhs, despite half their population being slaughtered, they still went on to rule.

[Elite Pakhtun]

lol what's your problem with Sikhs? They're good people.

I've had a few very close friends, who are now enemies, that are sikh. Obviously not bearded disgusting type, they were supposedly normal ie clean shaven, following most of the culture of their adopted nation. Much of their friendship was fraudulent and filled with back stabbery towards the tail end. Long story short, I found out it's because they have been brainwashed to hate someone like me because of our history.

You have to give it to the Sikhs, despite half their population being slaughtered, they still went on to rule.

I'm still waiting for someone to shed light on how that happened. I hear things like they were helped by the British, or they had Persian weapons. Either way, it was very short lived, especially in KP, and once their main character died... it crumbled instantaneously. Not much of a rule tbh. More like opportunist sneak thief.

[Kakar-Wardak]

I've had a few very close friends, who are now enemies, that are sikh. Obviously not bearded disgusting type, they were supposedly normal ie clean shaven, following most of the culture of their adopted nation. Much of their friendship was fraudulent and filled with back stabbery towards the tail end. Long story short, I found out it's because they have been brainwashed to hate someone like me because of our history.



I'm still waiting for someone to shed light on how that happened. I hear things like they were helped by the British, or they had Persian weapons. Either way, it was very short lived, especially in KP, and once their main character died... it crumbled instantaneously. Not much of a rule tbh. More like opportunist sneak thief.

They do boast about it though, they are still stuck in the past, idiots still keep swords in an age of guns lol, that's why Indian government slaughtered them in 84 they barricade themselves in their temple thinking that some mystical power would give them victory, also their history is full of lies like a handful of Sikhs defeated lakhs of mughals or fighting without a head I mean seriously?

[Elite Pakhtun]

They do boast about it though, they are still stuck in the past, idiots still keep swords in an age of guns lol, that's why Indian government slaughtered them in 84 they barricade themselves in their temple thinking that some mystical power would give them victory, also their history is full of lies like a handful of Sikhs defeated lakhs of mughals or fighting without a head I mean seriously?

I always try to see the silver lining in things. So I must be honest, at least they forced me to look up their history, and as a result learn more about my own.

Had I not done that, I would've believed claims that they had conquered Peshawar for 100 years and had conquered Kabul even.

[Samandri]

I'm still waiting for someone to shed light on how that happened. I hear things like they were helped by the British, or they had Persian weapons. Either way, it was very short lived, especially in KP, and once their main character died... it crumbled instantaneously. Not much of a rule tbh. More like opportunist sneak thief.

Highly organized European-trained army under Ranjeet Singh, with European officers , did the magic .......before Ranjeet Singh, they were marauding and warring for hundred years with no productive outcome

[Elite Pakhtun]

Highly organized European-trained army under Ranjeet Singh, with European officers , did the magic .......before Ranjeet Singh, they were marauding and warring with for hundred years with no productive outcome

Do you know why the Europeans went ahead and joined forces with them? Was it just a proxy fighting force to minimize British casualties?

[Samandri]

Do you know why the Europeans went ahead and joined forces with them? Was it just a proxy fighting force to minimize British casualties?

They were European mercenaries, with fighting experience in top European armies e.g many officers of Ranjeet Singh were from Napoelan army .....Tipu Sultan also benefited from European men particularly from French

[Elite Pakhtun]

Not a mistake or carelessness on his part, he dedicated all of his energies to curb the Sikh insurgency but it was beyond his capabilities........even a great administrator and dictator of Delhi , Najibuddaula Yousafzai, had to admit his helplessness against Sikhs in his last years despite scoring victories against Sikhs in every battle in Hariyana and western U.P...........

I disagree. Between the Chota Ghalughara, and the Barra Ghalughara, there is a gap of 16 years.

Unfortunately there's not enough literature available online to see the details of this, but I think the Mughals were a lot more ruthless on the Sikhs than Ahmad Shah. Mughals used to torture the hell out of Sikhs, when they refused to convert... cutting them "joint by joint" and putting them on "torture wheels" etc. ASD was a bit more straight forward... get rid of them.

From the pieces I've gathered, it looks like after the first holocaust, the momentum died down. Maybe I'm wrong? It seems hard to believe that (using wikipedia math - please correct me if I'm wrong) from a total sikh population of 30,000 at the small holocaust, going to a total of 100,000 at the big one, that they were being actively pursued... at least seriously. Maybe cosmetically something was happening, but I find it hard to believe a serious pursuit would still have the same results.

They were European mercenaries, with fighting experience in top European armies e.g many officers of Ranjeet Singh were from Napoelan army .....Tipu Sultan also benefited from European men particularly from French

Right... but why did they join Sikhs? If it was gold/cash, then how did the Sikhs get gold/cash?