Jinnah, an armchair politician

[Samandri]

"The Hindu-owned press had repeatedly taunted him (Jinnah) that he was an armchair politician who ran away from making the slightest sacrifice for the national cause. In a fit of irritation he told them that they might be enamoured by the antics of Gandhi:" . . .to obtain leadership, to sit like a goat under the police 'lathi' charge, then . to go to jail, then to complain of loss of weight and then to manage release (loud laughter). I don't believe in that · sort of struggle, but when the time for suffering comes, I will be the first to get bullet shots in my chest." Jinnah of course saw to it that he had never to face such a situation or undergo any suffering."(Merriam, Allen Hayes, Gandhi Vs Jinnah: The Debate Over the Partition of lndia, Calcutta, 1980, p. 117).


One day some Muslim students requested Jinnah to travel in the train by third class as Gandhi did so that the poor Muslims would feel he is one of them. Jinnah lost his temper and told them: "Do not dictate to me what I should do and should not do. It is not your money I am spending. I shall live and act as I choose." (Bolitho, Hector,Jinnah -- Creator of Pakistan, London, 1 954, p. 153.)

[Firdousi]

Jinnah was such a dog. He first betrayed his motherland India and after that he betrayed his parents Shia faith by turning to Sunnism. Traitor self hater like most of Punjabies-Sindhis.

[Shapur]

Correct me if I am wrong. The Pashtuns in Pakistan don't seem to respect Jinnah much, I have heard patriotic Pakistani pashtuns call him "wuch konai" and majority aren't really proud to call him baba e qaum. On the otherhand Iqbal seems to be more respected and appreciated.

[Peshawer_222]

Correct me if I am wrong. The Pashtuns in Pakistan don't seem to respect Jinnah much, I have heard patriotic Pakistani pashtuns call him "wuch konai" and majority aren't really proud to call him baba e qaum. On the otherhand Iqbal seems to be more respected and appreciated.

Love for Jinnah comes natural to all Pakistani's . I did my schooling in Roots and Beaconhouse ( Private good schools ) in KP . Love for Pakistan and Jinnah is doctrinated from the very beginning of a childs growth . There might be a small minority of rural pashtuns who dont view him as such but overwhelming majority of Pashtuns view him as Father of the nation .

[marwat]

Jinnah used to eat pork, was a pedophile and most of the time he talk **** while drunk. He was also a kafir murtad.

[marwat]

jinnah and pork

– M.C. Chagla, Roses in December, as quoted in book Jinnah of Pakistan by Stanley Wolpert

"As we were drinking our coffee and enjoying our sausages, in came an old, bearded Muslim with a young boy of about ten years of age, probably his grandson. They came and sat down near Jinnah. It was obvious that they had been directed from Town Hall… I then saw the boy’s hand reaching out slowly but irresistibly towards the plate of pork sausages. After some hesitation, he picked up one, put it in his mouth, munched it and seemed to enjoy it tremendously. I watched this uneasily… After some time they left and Jinnah turned to me, and said angrily: “Chagla, you should be ashamed of yourself.” I said: ” What did I do?” Jinnah asked: “How dare you allow the young boy to eat pork sausages?” I said: “Look, Jinnah, I had to use all my mental faculties to come to a quick decision. The question was: should I let Jinnah lose his election or should I let the boy go to eternal damnation? I chose in your favour.”

[marwat]

Love for Jinnah comes natural to all Pakistani's . I did my schooling in Roots and Beaconhouse ( Private good schools ) in KP . Love for Pakistan and Jinnah is doctrinated from the very beginning of a childs growth . There might be a small minority of rural pashtuns who dont view him as such but overwhelming majority of Pashtuns view him as Father of the nation .

You itself admitting that you have been drugged with jinnah and love for pakistan when you were a child. Anyone calling jinnah kafir a father of a muslim nation is by itself murtad zandeeq. Kafir can't lead muslim nation, this is against the saying of prophet. Pakistan founding fathers were a tola of qadiyani, ismaili and shia all kafir. Even iqbal was very much impressed with mirza ghulam zandeeq and called him the greatest muslim scholar. Iqbal pledged allegiance to him. His brother was a fully qadiyani and some says his father was too. Iqbal later repented though.

[Shapur]

Love for Jinnah comes natural to all Pakistani's . I did my schooling in Roots and Beaconhouse ( Private good schools ) in KP . Love for Pakistan and Jinnah is doctrinated from the very beginning of a childs growth . There might be a small minority of rural pashtuns who dont view him as such but overwhelming majority of Pashtuns view him as Father of the nation .

I am talking about Peshawris, not rural folk. The strange thing is, they will defend Jinnah infront of Indians and foreigners but among pashtuns themselves he doesn't seem to be held in high regard and is butt of many jokes. These people I am talking about were proud Pakistanis, normal chaiwalas, rikhshawalas.

I do agree that the more indoctrinated the kids are in Pakistani studies and belong to the middle and upper classes the more integrated they are into mainstream and those people view Jinnah with more respect as they can identify with his secular views and lifestyle.

[Peshawer_222]

Hindu,
You itself admitting that you have been drugged with jinnah and love for pakistan when you were a child. Anyone calling jinnah kafir a father of a muslim nation is by itself murtad zandeeq. Kafir can't lead muslim nation, this is against the saying of prophet. Pakistan founding fathers were a tola of qadiyani, ismaili and shia all kafir. Even iqbal was very much impressed with mirza ghulam zandeeq and called him the greatest muslim scholar. Iqbal pledged allegiance to him. His brother was a fully qadiyani and some says his father was too. Iqbal later repented though.

Again Contrary to popular opinion Pakistan wasn't made in the name of religion . Jinnah himself was secular and wanted Pakistan to be secular . From 1947 - 1970's Pakistan was a semi - secular country . It wasn't overly religious and foreigners could be seen in Bikini's on Clifton Beach . There were strip clubs in Karachi when Bhutto finally banned them .

Well then the 200 million Pakistani's are kafir zandeeq according to you ?

[Firdousi]

Again Contrary to popular opinion Pakistan wasn't made in the name of religion . Jinnah himself was secular and wanted Pakistan to be secular . From 1947 - 1970's Pakistan was a semi - secular country . It wasn't overly religious and foreigners could be seen in Bikini's on Clifton Beach . There were strip clubs in Karachi when Bhutto finally banned them .

Well then the 200 million Pakistani's are kafir zandeeq according to you ?

Yes.

[Samandri]

It wasn't overly religious and foreigners could be seen in Bikini's on Clifton Beach . There were strip clubs in Karachi when Bhutto finally banned them .

Are you against the idea of strip clubs and bikini on beaches in Pakistan? (you frequently tell us that you are a very liberal and modern person)

[Porus]

I am talking about Peshawris, not rural folk. The strange thing is, they will defend Jinnah infront of Indians and foreigners but among pashtuns themselves he doesn't seem to be held in high regard and is butt of many jokes. These people I am talking about were proud Pakistanis, normal chaiwalas, rikhshawalas.

I do agree that the more indoctrinated the kids are in Pakistani studies and belong to the middle and upper classes the more integrated they are into mainstream and those people view Jinnah with more respect as they can identify with his secular views and lifestyle.

You're probably right. I haven't interacted much with Pashtuns, and unless they're Brigadiers or Generals in Pak Mil, they usually don't like Jinnah as much as the average Mohajir or Punjabi. Myself, I'm from a Kashmiri-Punjabi family, so they see him as a leader.

I think most Pakistanis like him either because they're unwilling to question their own beliefs or they like him because he was 'secular'. He was the only leader who believed in a secular democracy. To an extent, that is true, but one has to account for the mistakes he made. He definitely should've stayed within the Congress and allied with Gandhi. Had he done that, Bacha Khan, Gandhi, Abul Kalam Azad, Nehru and him would've been the titans of India. Unfortunately he allied himself with the Nawabs of Central Provinces and Punjab and served the rich Muslims, instead of becoming a voice of the poor.

I think even if he was a voice for the rich, he'd have been better off seeking a United India. Separation has caused us way too much damage, more us than the Indians.

[Porus]

Again Contrary to popular opinion Pakistan wasn't made in the name of religion . Jinnah himself was secular and wanted Pakistan to be secular . From 1947 - 1970's Pakistan was a semi - secular country . It wasn't overly religious and foreigners could be seen in Bikini's on Clifton Beach . There were strip clubs in Karachi when Bhutto finally banned them .

Well then the 200 million Pakistani's are kafir zandeeq according to you ?

Bikinis aren't the founding principle of secularism but yes, Pakistanis were much more liberal before than they are now, post-Zia and 9/11.

Pakistan is a weird idea actually. I'd love for it to be secular, but you can't take the religious factor away from it. This was a country meant for 'Muslims of the British Raj', which kind of already says it's a country with a religious identity. I suppose you could equate it with Israel in that it's religious in character, but (supposed to be) secular on paper.

[Samandri]

. Unfortunately he allied himself with the Nawabs of Central Provinces and Punjab and served the rich Muslims, instead of becoming a voice of the poor.

He was a kala Angraiz. A billionaire with cigar in his mouth , kept dogs in the fashion of angaiz and was always traveling in the best available transport (he had his own private luxurious plane), could not relate to poor. The funny thing is that he was delivering speeches from paper (like Nawaz Shareef) and it were in English which was unintelligible to the crowds.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Love for Jinnah comes natural to all Pakistani's . I did my schooling in Roots and Beaconhouse ( Private good schools ) in KP . Love for Pakistan and Jinnah is doctrinated from the very beginning of a childs growth . There might be a small minority of rural pashtuns who dont view him as such but overwhelming majority of Pashtuns view him as Father of the nation .

That right there says enough ....indoctrination =/= natural