Jinnah, an armchair politician

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[MENTION=18484]Porus[/MENTION] you reliaze British punjab was non-muslim majority for most part? If anything only in 1941 census greater punjab was 51% muslim. Punjabi muslims who made majority in western punjab were not voting for Congress. Punjabi muslims supported either unionsts who for all intent and purposes were secular party dominated and funded by punjabi muslims and Muslim League.

Still, Muslim league wasn't in a majority. I don't get your point? 51% is quite a sizeable majority. Muslims were a larger majority in Punjab than they are a majority in the state of Pakistan.

If you're trying to tell me that people wanted partition then yes, I agree. Lots of people thought they'd be better off, because their conditions were getting worse and worse due to the divide and rule policies ingrained in the British Raj. Sikh militias were coming for Muslims, Muslims were butchering Sikhs in turn. Things were a mess. But none of us wanted that. It's not like Punjabis were desiring mayhem. Ordinary people just wanted it to be over and if Pakistan was the way then lots of them were will to concede.

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basically the only way children in Pakistan can love their nation and revere their forged icons is through forced indoctrination rather than willful and natural respect and admiration.

That says a lot; on the Kim Jong Il level.

Every country in one way or the other indoctrinates its kids to believe they are the best, that's how nations work. America does it, Saudis do it, Iranians think they're the bees knees, greatest. ever. superiorest. race on the planet earth. Pakistanis are just one piece of the puzzle.

[Peshawer_222]

basically the only way children in Pakistan can love their nation and revere their forged icons is through forced indoctrination rather than willful and natural respect and admiration.

That says a lot; on the Kim Jong Il level.

Every Country teaches its kid to respect their Icons and love their country . Are you trying to tell me that in Afghan schools love for Afghanistan is not taught ?

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Every Country teaches its kid to respect their Icons and love their country . Are you trying to tell me that in Afghan schools love for Afghanistan is not taught ?

^ Afghans love Ahmad Shah. Turks love Attaturk and Suleiman. Iranians love Cyrus. It's all nationalism at the end of the day, anyone who buys it, is a moron.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Every country in one way or the other indoctrinates its kids to believe they are the best, that's how nations work. America does it, Saudis do it, Iranians think they're the bees knees, greatest. ever. superiorest. race on the planet earth. Pakistanis are just one piece of the puzzle.

for sure; the difference here is most people in these countries realize it and think it's hoaky, these nationalist types from Pakistan think it was the Gospel delivered to Jinnah lol

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

^ Afghans love Ahmad Shah. Turks love Attaturk and Suleiman. Iranians love Cyrus. It's all nationalism at the end of the day, anyone who buys it, is a moron.

I don't love Ahmad Shah ....like AT ALL, he was a treacherous leader.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Every Country teaches its kid to respect their Icons and love their country . Are you trying to tell me that in Afghan schools love for Afghanistan is not taught ?

Tu Quoque Fallacy.

Your logical fallacy is tu quoque

tu quoque
You avoided having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - you answered criticism with criticism.

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for sure; the difference here is most people in these countries realize it and think it's hoaky, these nationalist types from Pakistan think it was the Gospel delivered to Jinnah lol

Peshawar and Dawn are actually far better than the ones I've seen (in person)

I don't like the concept of 'my country, my race, my religion, if you don't like it... LEAVE'. That pretty much sums up Pakistani nationalists for me. I like to have open debates with anyone and everyone, and I respect them while doing so, but it's when they start questioning my allegiance and say 'you're working for RAW!' or 'you sound like an Indian', that I just think... why not counter my points instead? What's being Indian got to do with pointing out Pakistan's faults?

Edit: Tu Quoque. Touche. That's just what I was saying.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Peshawar and Dawn are actually far better than the ones I've seen (in person)

I don't like the concept of 'my country, my race, my religion, if you don't like it... LEAVE'. That pretty much sums up Pakistani nationalists for me. I like to have open debates with anyone and everyone, and I respect them while doing so, but it's when they start questioning my allegiance and say 'you're working for RAW!' or 'you sound like an Indian', that I just think... why not counter my points instead? What's being Indian got to do with pointing out Pakistan's faults?

Edit: Tu Quoque. Touche. That's just what I was saying.

I think what's getting obfuscated in the mudslinging here is I'm perfectly fine with Pashtuns of Pakistan wanting to be with Pakistan, if this is what they truly want and believe what serves them best, more power to them. I'm not ethnocentric. I don't believe for Pashtuns or anyone for that matter to have construcive relations they need to be apart of the same nation or some ish.

As you have honed in on already, my Indic this and that banter is really to trigger people, especially if I sense they have a sore spot about it. (ahem ahem Ka-roachy)

The prime motive of Peshawar_90210 is he felt compelled to join so that in his delusional imagination, he believes he's vindicated Pakistan, that's fragility right there, a frail sense of identity and self assurance. he first denied Pakistan's exploiting terrorism to perform its aims, then finally caves in and admits it when he couldn't take the pressure. This is something I've noticed with at least the Nationalists who come here; they really believe they're battling some cyber war.

[Peshawer_222]

for sure; the difference here is most people in these countries realize it and think it's hoaky, these nationalist types from Pakistan think it was the Gospel delivered to Jinnah lol

OK so your problem is why do so many different Ethnicities love Pakistan despite being different ? In America nobody is taught to love their own ethnicity over being an American . Hispanics , Mexicans , Black Americans , White Americans for them it is the values of being an American that holds much more value and that is what binds together 52 states despite being different . In Pakistan You can be a Sindhi , Punjabi , Pashtun , Mohajir , Balochi etc does not matter much because at the end of the day you are only taught about Pakistan and loving Pakistan . Core values of the country do not promote any ethnic superiority .

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

OK so your problem is why do so many different Ethnicities love Pakistan despite being different ? In America nobody is taught to love their own ethnicity over being an American . Hispanics , Mexicans , Black Americans , White Americans for them it is the values of being an American that holds much more value and that is what binds together 52 states despite being different . In Pakistan You can be a Sindhi , Punjabi , Pashtun , Mohajir , Balochi etc does not matter much because at the end of the day you are only taught about Pakistan and loving Pakistan . Core values of the country do not promote any ethnic superiority .

Nice bait and switch. But no one's falling for that,

[Peshawer_222]

Nice bait and switch. But no one's falling for that,

OK my simple question if you are a Tajik or Uzbek in Afghanistan whom does your loyalty lie to ? Afghanistan or your tribe ?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

OK my simple question if you are a Tajik or Uzbek in Afghanistan whom does your loyalty lie to ? Afghanistan or your tribe ?

I already answered this question.

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OK my simple question if you are a Tajik or Uzbek in Afghanistan whom does your loyalty lie to ? Afghanistan or your tribe ?

He already told you.

OK so your problem is why do so many different Ethnicities love Pakistan despite being different ? In America nobody is taught to love their own ethnicity over being an American . Hispanics , Mexicans , Black Americans , White Americans for them it is the values of being an American that holds much more value and that is what binds together 52 states despite being different . In Pakistan You can be a Sindhi , Punjabi , Pashtun , Mohajir , Balochi etc does not matter much because at the end of the day you are only taught about Pakistan and loving Pakistan . Core values of the country do not promote any ethnic superiority .

Very simplistic view is that 'Pakistaniat conquers all'. If you've ever been to Sindh you can still see posters and paintings of nationalist organisations like 'Jeeay Sindh Mahaaz'. People from those areas are slowing going missing, go figure.
Sindhis as a minority also in my experience are much more cynical about Pakistan: they're not anti-Pakistan, however they have the added intelligence of a minority to be able to take criticism about their country and its horrible policies. This isn't something I see very often from the Urdu-speaking or Punjabi community. They're much too elite to care, and even if they do, their solution is always Fauji Aamriyat, not Jamhooriat.

Baloch, I mean... I'll be going to Balochistan soon maybe this winter or next year. All you need to do is go there and ask people what they think of Pakistan. As long as they're comfortable knowing that you're not working for the establishment, they'll tell you exactly what they think about Pak Fauj, CPEC, Sardars etc. They put themselves before the nation, and rightfully so... they're the most isolated ethnic group out of any other. That's why organisations like the BLA and people like Brahamdagh (who's not a member, but a nationalist) exist.

Point isn't to make Pakistan look bad, it's to highlight the scale of problems back home and acknowledge they exist.

[Peshawer_222]

I already answered this question.

Then you shouldn't have any problem with Millions of Pashtun's Preferring Being Pakistani . Any country that can't live side by side just because their skin color or race is different is bound to end up like Syria , Yemen , Libya . Iraq or Afghanistan .