Like flies around dung

[Damir9000]

We don't need western style demoracy to cultivate such acceptance. It is inherent to Islam that there is no compulsion in religion and no one is forced to be muslim if they don't want. Quran is very clear when it says Mohammad's PBUH duty was only to deliver the messege and leave the rest to God. When someone says the shahada, it should be from the heart and sincere, what good is it when it is due to fear and just for show.and acceptance by society. The funny thing is muslims themselves encourage such hypocrites because of their rejection of others peoples true self so idirectly responsible for their actions. This all comes from insecurity on part of the muslims who fear such openness and freedom will.encourage others to leave the faith. Isnt the whole.point of faith that it is sincere rather than through fear and conformity?

Ofcourse it is not easy for everyone to come out and say they don't believe due to the narrow mindedness of muslims, people will lose family ties and be alienated from their own kin. Its far more convinient to live your whole life as a hypocrite muslim and carry that awful burden than come out and be sincere.

If that is so, then why do many Muslim preachers, even in the west, say apostates should receives the death penalty?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Atheists and apostates have always existed in the Muslim world. These people even use to debate the great Imams of their era.

If you look at the history you will find that only heretics who caused societal problems and created new sects were banished, persecuted and even killed.

Today, Muslims are very reactionary towards people with opposing views due to internal problems within the Muslim world.

The ruling elites are no longer Muslim and the intellectual stimulus does no longer come from Muslim thought. Religion has degraded to folk rituals and superstition.

People can't find satisfactory from most Muslim thought leaders and this leads them to non-Muslims.

I know many apostates and atheists. In away, I can say that I don't really blame them. Avarage Muslim in our community just practices Islam without seriously thinking about his own beliefs. They are the people who are merely nominally Muslim. They feel threatened even if a fellow Muslim challenges their beliefs.

There are thousands of Afghan refugees reaching Europes shores every day. Most of them have never really understood the most basic concepts of monotheism. They claim to be Muslims but they rely on supernatural powers of amulets and dead saints in order to cross the high seas.

Once they arrive here and spend a few years attending classes they suddenly decide to become atheists.

For me, it doesn't make any difference. I care more about those new Muslims who accept Islam because they have done research and studied it. One new Muslim who knows what Islam means is better than a million who practice shirk and called Muslims just because they are born in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

[Damir9000]

Atheists and apostates have always existed in the Muslim world. These people even use to debate the great Imams of their era.

If you look at the history you will find that only heretics who caused societal problems and created new sects were banished, persecuted and even killed.

Today, Muslims are very reactionary towards people with opposing views due to internal problems within the Muslim world.

The ruling elites are no longer Muslim and the intellectual stimulus does no longer come from Muslim thought. Religion has degraded to folk rituals and superstition.

People can't find satisfactory from most Muslim thought leaders and this leads them to non-Muslims.

I know many apostates and atheists. In away, I can say that I don't really blame them. Avarage Muslim in our community just practices Islam without seriously thinking about his own beliefs. They are the people who are merely nominally Muslim. They feel threatened even if a fellow Muslim challenges their beliefs.

There are thousands of Afghan refugees reaching Europes shores every day. Most of them have never really understood the most basic concepts of monotheism. They claim to be Muslims but they rely on supernatural powers of amulets and dead saints in order to cross the high seas.

Once they arrive here and spend a few years attending classes they suddenly decide to become atheists.

For me, it doesn't make any difference. I care more about those new Muslims who accept Islam because they have done research and studied it. One new Muslim who knows what Islam means is better than a million who practice shirk and called Muslims just because they are born in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

What is your opinion on the large amounts of new converts who leave Islam a short time after converting?

[Sarbani]

Once they arrive here and spend a few years attending classes they suddenly decide to become atheists.

For me, it doesn't make any difference. I care more about those new Muslims who accept Islam because they have done research and studied it. One new Muslim who knows what Islam means is better than a million who practice shirk and called Muslims just because they are born in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

How common is it for Muslims in Europe to leave Islam? I heard they are very religious there compared to elsewhere. Burqas for example are far more common in Birmingham than in Lahore.

Most converts to Islam mainly convert to Islam because of their partner so they can get married, that's why most converts to Islam are women. These people often haven't read much about Islam. Although, yes, you occasionally do get those converts that converted out of their own free will and end up being religious.

[Damir9000]

wait wait

Are the flies suppose to be Atheists?

What is the dung? Islam?

[Firdousi]

We don't need western style demoracy to cultivate such acceptance. It is inherent to Islam that there is no compulsion in religion and no one is forced to be muslim if they don't want. Quran is very clear when it says Mohammad's PBUH duty was only to deliver the messege and leave the rest to God. When someone says the shahada, it should be from the heart and sincere, what good is it when it is due to fear and just for show.and acceptance by society. The funny thing is muslims themselves encourage such hypocrites because of their rejection of others peoples true self so idirectly responsible for their actions. This all comes from insecurity on part of the muslims who fear such openness and freedom will.encourage others to leave the faith. Isnt the whole.point of faith that it is sincere rather than through fear and conformity?

Ofcourse it is not easy for everyone to come out and say they don't believe due to the narrow mindedness of muslims, people will lose family ties and be alienated from their own kin. Its far more convinient to live your whole life as a hypocrite muslim and carry that awful burden than come out and be sincere.

I really appreciate Western democracy, Western secular humanism and Western ability to build strong civil institutions. But honestly speaking I don't want Western democracy to be imposed on us. Nor their values. We have too much to learn from West when it comes to Human Rights, democracy, progress and culture but at the end of the day we have our own set of values and our own way to deal with reality. Westerns got many good things but I think they are too weak, effeminate and gullible.

[Damir9000]

Westerns got many good things but I think they are too weak, effeminate and gullible.

Can you explain?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

How common is it for Muslims in Europe to leave Islam? I heard they are very religious there compared to elsewhere. Burqas for example are far more common in Birmingham than in Lahore.

Most converts to Islam mainly convert to Islam because of their partner so they can get married, that's why most converts to Islam are women. These people often haven't read much about Islam. Although, yes, you occasionally do get those converts that converted out of their own free will and end up being religious.

Most apostates here are Iranians, Afghans and Pakistanis from urban areas of their home countries. They are secular liberal people who weren't really religious back home.

There are also many apostates who use to be abused and I'll treated by others.

I know an Arab woman who is on the verge of apostasy. She doesn't know much about Islam and her Muslim friends are very rude and shallow. She feels more comfortable with non Muslims.

In most cases, lacking good social bonds plays a major role. Another reason is the incompetence of the local Imams here. Most of these guys are poorly educated and very opportunistic. They lack the ability to tend to the needs of young Muslims and they lack modern education. When young people approach them with doubts they tell them stupid nonsensical stuff. This drives many young Muslims away from Islam.

There was an article in the Guardian few years ago disproving the theory that most new Muslims chose to convert because of their spouse.

That may have been the case in the 70's and 80's.

Most new converts in Europe are already married or single. Conversion because of marriage is rare due to the fact that many men from Middle East married European women to obtain visas. Those men then abandoned there wives or abused them.

Non Muslim women don't like brown and black men who are chasing them.

Most converts have chosen to be Musliam after 9/11. Many converts I have met told me they wanted to find out why Muslims are at war with the West. Reading Quran and other books and interacting with Muslims made them appreciate Islam.

There are many Muslim core areas like London, Birmingham, The Hague, Paris and Amsterdam. Most of them are people who use to be less religious. They have turned to religion because they felt they were losing their own identity as a minority and religion helped them to find their place in an intolerant non Muslim society.

Niqab is very rare here. Only a few people where them. In Holland, the minister for Social Affairs Ella Vogelaar ordered a survey. The survey found that there are about 100 women in Holland who are wearing the Niqab and most of them are converts. One of the most outspoken Niqabis in Holland is a feminist. There are many women who choose to wear the Niqab for political reasons.

Unlike them, the Niqab wearing women in UK do so because they are following the Hanafi school of thought. In Hanafi law, Niqab is prescribed in areas where there is wide spread immorality.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

What is your opinion on the large amounts of new converts who leave Islam a short time after converting?

I don't know if there are large amounts. I do know of many women who have left Islam because they were stuck in marriages with wife beating alcoholic perverts who only wanted their wife to convert so that they can brag about it back in the home country.

There are also many guys who experiment with all sorts of stuff. Islam, Yehovah's witnesses, Bhuddism and even Hindiusm.

[Firdousi]

Can you explain?

The average European is always looking down on non-Europeans. Truth is they are weak, they are 24/7 bragging about their superior values but unlike Muslims very few of them are ready to die for them. All their life is reduced to enjoying it. Thanks to lefties brainwashing most of them consider homosexuals and transexual as some sort of role models (I have no problem with those collectives but I must point out at some point you get tired of all the propaganda and all the gay stuff). They are naive, they don't know a sh*t about what the hell is going on in the rest of the world. Manhood is almost taboo. The weaker the better. They are all the day moaning about stupid little things. They have been badly brought up. To sum up they are trapped in bubble.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Manzareh, sure but there's an upside to all this.

This outs all the posers who were hiding in the shadows all these years, but now they feel safe and secure enough to come to the light of day. Outing them allows you to target them and neutralize them. Something we couldn't do in the past because they were shelthered behind that wishy washy cloak of ambiguity.

Some of these vermin are in Canada and Europe, we can use hoodlums as useful idiots, to stage attacks on these people and make it look like petty crime, random robberies or gang turf war stabbings. It's easy to dox information about these wimps through their IP addresses. It's not like PF is heavily encrypted. Look at this as an opportunity, not a set back.

Let the purge unfold.

[Sarbani]

wait wait

Are the flies suppose to be Atheists?

What is the dung? Islam?

Muslims are starting to tell the truth about Islam bits by pieces. Iblis claimed it was toxic, Manzareh called it dung, and Barakzai claimed that Muhammad owned sex slaves.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Muslims are starting to tell the truth about Islam bits by pieces. Iblis claimed it was toxic, Manzareh called it dung, and Barakzai claimed that Muhammad owned sex slaves.

and Azaaaad Pashtunistaaaan just proved his need for hooked on phonics. Lol. Keep chasing those windmills Quixote! One day, just day you can live in that Shang Ri La where everyone speaks Pashto in one country but somehow everyone also watches the Pashtun version of The Apprentice and religion is illegal ... all despite the knowledge that no single village in any part of Afghanistan or Pashtunkhwa would accept such a pervert paradigm.

Now that we know with the above quote, how you interpret reality, we can be assured that you are farther off from your goal than ever before.

[Jamal120]

With all due respect but seems you have no contact with Afghanistan´s ground reality. There are plenty of ex-Muslims in Afghanistan they just don't dare to "come out of the closet" because you tolerant Muslims would kill them. Same thing happens in any other Islamic country. Even in a democratic country such as Turkey you would be sidelined by your friends and relatives. How do you expect them not to rise their voices? They have every right!

So then why do you see westerners talking on the internet the most? Don't you realize most Afghan's don't have consistent internet access to constantly be posting stuff about how they leave Islam. It's obvious that the majority of these ex-muslims are westerners.

[Jamal120]

Seems like you never took the time to check.
Don't you know a lot of outspoken Atheists were former Christians?
They **** on Christianity all the time, they even have their own show.

The Atheist Experience Show
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtheistExperience

I realize that, but most of them do move on with their lives, as there are a lot more people moving to atheism in western countries.(which is a fact so don't try to imply otherwise) But whenever you meet an ex-muslim they make it the focus of their lives.