why are afghan pashtuns now called kabuli?true pashtun are pakistan or afghan pashtun

[gadoonwal]

After all we should,nt give up our struggle for freedom and unity.
Unity of lar aw bar pashtun is must for our future,history,identity and freedom.
We should,nt be following pakistani establishment of making fool of pashtuns in the name of holy islam.
At the same time pashtuns must not be fool by farsiwans .
They brainwashed pashtuns of aghanistan there by calling us pakistanis the term we never used.
This is how they play this game to divide us.
But why would pashtu lover pashtun follow these rats.

[Pukhtoon]

I do,nt know why you are turning every post like that.
I have never met pashtun from pashtunkhwa calling himself pakistanay.
They always like to be identify as a pashtun nothing els.
The word afghan is originated from the mugal era and mugal court.
The none-pashtun called us afghan.In between we never use this word .
You need some history book to trace the origin of this word.
The greek historain Herodotus when he visited our land(afghanistan and pashtunkhwa) use the word pakteen or pakhteen for us not afghan.
This is one of the oldest evidence.
why are you people following iranian historains.
even in isrealistic theory this word ,,afghana,,or afghan,,,is not making any sence and was rejected by many pashtuns.
The pashtuns are related to isrealis through another link ,,bani-bakht,,,,,,,,,you can read that in history section where i posted it.
Even here in pakistan they use the term afghan for pashtuns in id cards forms etc.Our entire tribe write afghan as an ethnicity in domicile and id cards form etc but again not the people of pashtunkhwa nor the afghan-pashtun using this in everyday life why?
The reality is that other call us afghan but we do,nt use this in general.

Did you ever read that poem of Mahmood afghan,s sister written for his brother.
If i find i will write it for you here.It is in the book called ,,pakhtana da tareeh pa rana ki,,,/.
She repeatedly use the word pashtun for his brother and our people.
Even the great ahmad shah abdali baba called his homeland pashtunkhwa later his own persainised family ignore this fact.
The reason i called them persainized cus none of them were able to speak pashtu as their first language including timor shah.Timur was born to an iranian woman.

So why khushal khan used both afghan and pashtun in his poetry?.

He was born during mugal era and this word ,,afghan,,was used by mugals for pakhtuns. .
He mostly used the word pashtun in his poetry not afghan.
You can read his books.

Now malak yar gharsheen a pashtun poet from present day afghanistan born in Ghor used the word pashtunkhwa for his homeland.da sher wolwaly
pashtunkhwa khukali zalmi chi Hind tha zgaly
aghliya paiglay kaandi athanona,

so why the pashtu speaking pashtuns never used this term in daily life.

I have read dozens of books about this name but do,nt make sence.
It is given to us by others.



Now to your question of pekhawar pashtana dont like afghan-pashtun.
First of all i am not from peshawar secondly you are blaming the whole papulation of peshwar for few bad people while ignoring this fact that some afghans commeting crimes there on daily bases.
Peshwar people in that case are more open to afghans then others.
Peshwar distt and city is papulated by many people and tribes.
In the city you will find kharyaans (bilingual in pashtu and khindko) and other pashtuns.However peshwar is more then 95% pashtuns which include pashtuns from all accross pashtunskhwa.
Outside peshwar city the distt is papulated by khalil momand,momand,dawoodzai,samkani ,urmuris and others.

There are afghan-pashtun camps everywhere in pashtunkhwa and i never seen anyone mistreating.
we have a very large camp of afghan-pashtun near gandap village in gadoon area and they are just like us.They are involved in buisnesses with locals and doing well.We hardly identify them cu they look like locals after living for so long.Most of them are kunaris,kandozi and logaris.

This is the last post I will respond to of yours because from one end you talk about being Pashtoon lar aw bar and the other you insult and or just discredit anything someone says just because you don't care to agree. I tell you of the experiences of the the Pashtoons in Peshawar and you say this is false. When I tell you Afghanistan treats people a certain way you make up your own data and say my first hand accounts are false. So what is the point of talking to someone who won't even accept any facts that are counter to his per-conceived image? Whenever I write a post to respond to what you say you ignore it and don't answer. When you are wrong about something you don't apologize and just ignore it. What is the benefit of talking to a person like that? This is why this will be the last post.

So from your vantage point, you know the experience of Afghan Pashtoons in Pekhawar and Afghan Pashtoons in Afghanistan better then Afghans. But us Afghans don't know about these things, you know better, Alhamdillah. If you want to talk about bad experiences in Peshawar, do a poll with Afghan Pashtoons and they can tell you about the melmasti shown to refugees in Pekhawar. In fact, poll some of the other people from KPK about what they feel about Pekhawar or just read the posts in this thread. They did not have positive things to say and I haven't used any bad language except to say that the conception of Pashtoonwali in Pekhawar is really inconsistent with other Pashtoon dominated areas.

Look at your own posts, did you forget all the insults you said about Afghan refugees, orphans, widows, about our old? Compare what I have said and what you have said for a more accurate view of who has been respectful and who has not. You make fun of Afghanistan and say we are poor, we are backwards, we are destitute, you make fun of our situation and talk about how rich KPK is when all the money received is from U.S. and foreign aid. These are comments you made on this thread, and the type of things Pekhawari people say all the time - you think this is positive treatment?

What I will tell you though, as an aside, is the comments you made about our orphans and widows was not something small and something you will have to answer for at some point. Of all months, in Ramadhan, no matter what the reason, you chose to ridicule and call into question the honor one of Allah (swts) most beloved people, the widows and the orphans. Mashallah for their eman, and their nang, that despite their horrible conditions, they fast, pray, and have unwavering Eman and you chose to ridicule them - we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now if we were even half as good as them. By those comments you only insulted yourself as you can't take away an ounce from their honor, ever, Insha'Allah.

To continue responding to your post though, Pekhawar Pukhtoons only say we are all the same when it is convenient. What kind of "brother" insults his brother and mocks him? Who began the ill-treatment? The Afghan Pashtoons and even non-Pashtoons never recognize KPK as Pakistans so we consider this our home and considered its inhabitants our brothers and countrymen. Were we treated like brothers and countrymen? No. Do the Pekhawari's say I am Pakistani? Absolutely. Many of your other friends proudly tell me I am "Pathani." There are initiating actions and retaliatory and reactionary actions - this is a difference you fail to recognize.

People from Pekhawar all love Pakistan and shout Pakistan zindabad at the top of their lungs and you say they never did but I see it constantly. If they do it is their choice, there is nothing wrong with it but you can't do that and then at the same time claim your independent. If you want to determine who is right or wrong, do a poll and ask some people. Afghan Pashtoons have a much different viewpoint then you because we have lived in both Afghanistan and Pakistan for a long time and know each people very well. You do not have the same insight and are therefore completely unqualified to comment about how things are in Afghanistan or how Afghan Pashtoons are treated because you were not an Afghan refugee in Pakistan and you did not live your life in Afghanistan.

Afghan and Pashtoon are the same word for us and has been for centuries - tell an Afghan that Afghan doesn't mean Pashtoon and Afghani doesn't mean Pashto and they will think you are crazy. From historical accounts, all the way back to the 3rd century we were called Abgan during the Sassanid Empires time and the Avaghana by Indian historians in the 6th century and then in the current form when recorded in Hudud-Al-Alam, a book in Arabic, in the Arabic form as "Afghan." And, despite peoples disagreement, it refers for many to Afghana, our original ancestor, the grandson of King Saul (Talut) which if accepted would pre-date all other terms. Further, even if you claim some outside influence on the name, then what about Peshawar whose name is derived from a sanskrit words. Should we change its name as well, because if you believe Afghan is derived from a non-Pashto root, so to is Peshawar and even the word Khyber refers to an area in the Middle East, so we should throw these words out as well or agree that, even if (although I categorially don't agree, but for arguments sake) they have influence from non-Pashtoon languages or sources, they have now become our own word with ownership having been displayed for centuries? What I provided and you provided can similarly be discredited for one reason or another because Pashtoons are a nomadic people and have had no written history and therefore our origin stories are inherently up for debate. What is poignant, however, is that Pashtoons have been calling themselves Afghan for centuries and Khushal Khan's poetry might be in response to people like yourself who claim there is, in fact, a difference between Afghan and Pashtoon. The fervor with which he delivered the lines of said poetry probably speaks to his outrage that someone might try to disassociate the word Afghan from Pashtoon. However, if a source contradicts what you say, then you say it is an illegitimate source. So what is the point in discussing anything with you if you have no ground rules for debate and cannot agree any contradictory evidence?

As to Pekhawars population, there is a huge amount of Hindko and they may consider themselves Pashtoon, but there not khaas Pukhtoon. How can they be khaas when they say my qowm is Pathan? I have nothing against the people of Pekhawar generally, not even Hindko or otherwise, but in truth, amongst all Pashtoons, even Pakistani Pashtoons on this thread consider them the most divergent from our core beliefs and practices.

Further, the people of Pekhawar didn't do anything for Afghan refugees and yet you make it seem as though you waited for us at the border with trays of Baklava. Refugee camps were set up through foreign aid and so too was other forms of aid. Any other incidental aid also comes through the hands of U.S. aid given to the Pakistani government for allowing them to freely use Pakistani airspace and KPK as they wish in their war against Afghanistan. Pakistan will remove these Afghans as soon as the money dries up and have already been deporting them in mass. Does a Pashtoon remove his guest from his home forcefully and does he boast about feeding his guests with someone elses money? If we were truly the guests as you imply of the Pekhawar population itself, it would seem that we wouldn't have to leave at all even if the refugee camps or closed because UN Aid shoudl have nothing to do with a private citizens receiving of a guest - this is why your claims make little sense and no such assitance to the level and degree you imply ever were provided. However, you did provide many Afghans with mocking, supporting the actions of your police as against Afghans and their theft, indiscriminate shootings, and indiscriminate jailing all the while shouting Pakistan Zindabad.

Your ideas about Pekhawar are very skewed. Pekhawar is very close to you and I understand that but you don't listen to any objective facts at all and are constantly in defense mode. There are many good people in Pekhawar but generally there practice of Pashtoon culture is deficient relative to other areas. Since you cannot even agree on this simple issue there is really no way to have a proper discussion. Peruse any of the threads and inevitably, when the dust has settled, the only issue anyone has with any part of KPK is Pekhawar. Why don't they have issues with Quetta, another large city? You should think about that and think of it objectively. Why do Pakistani Pashtoons constantly distance themselves away from Pekhawar? Why do they constantly say don't evaluate us based on Pekhawar. Why? Answer these questions to yourself and you will understand that maybe your bias has blinded you to the facts.

This is the last time I will respond to you in this thread. Insha'Allah if you believe Pekhawar is no less in its Pashtoonwali then any other area and has no need for any improvement, Alhamdillah. If you believe 95% of Afghanistan speaks Dari, that Pashto has no significance, that we are infatuated with Dari, that Dari is the equivalent of Urdu in Afghanistan, Alhamdillah. You can live in that fantasy in bliss. However, I would then suggest you stop talking about having any unity across the border as that idea is completely incompatible with your beliefs about Pekhawar, KPK, and Afghanistan. When you can provide objective facts and when presented with them are willing to accept them (even if they are contrary to your beliefs), then maybe you can get somewhere with your agenda. Until then, it is absolutely useless.

Khoday Pa'Amaan.

[Smarty]

the question is why afghans are so desperate for pakistani citzenship if they are mistreated?
Nadra cancels 80,000 NICs issued to Afghan refugees – The Express Tribune

[Pukhtoon]

the question is why afghans are so desperate for pakistani citzenship if they are mistreated?
Nadra cancels 80,000 NICs issued to Afghan refugees – The Express Tribune

Because there is a war in Afghanistan maybe?

[khushal]

when your a citizen of Pakistan and have all your papers, the police and the people cant harass or bother you. that is why.

Why are Pakistanis so desperate for US citizenship?

[randolph85]

is this a joke?

yeah go ahead and form your own independent kp, but i don't know how it would run economically with the only exports being terrorism and bi weekly reuters articles on said terrorism.

kabul > peshawar

[khushal]

Paksitanis don't know what ghyrat is. A person that says "someone sold us" has no ghyrat. Ghyratmand don't boast about feeding someone or helping people, etc. They don't even realize these are shameful comments.

[rednwhite99]

Quetta Pashtuns atleast consider themselves afghan unlike Pekhewaris.

only the ones who support pkmap especially and i have seen in quetta pashtuns have married alot with the afghan pashtuns..maybe thats why but still i remeber where achakzai was talking about somthing and he said afghan and people went what did u say? and then he had to explain afghan meaning pashtun..its not that common..dont u think acceptin urself as pashtun is enough

[rednwhite99]

Paksitanis don't know what ghyrat is. A person that says "someone sold us" has no ghyrat. Ghyratmand don't boast about feeding someone or helping people, etc. They don't even realize these are shameful comments.

u r absolutely right ... but u shudnt put all pakistanis in one classifcation

[rednwhite99]

The ones from Swat are a night and day difference from Peshawar although the Pashtoons get less and less Pro-Pakistan like you mentioned the further away from Peshawar you get. The ones I know constantly say "I am Afghan" they don't use the word Pakistani, they say we just live in Pakistan, but really we are Afghan and other comments like that. However, they do sometimes say some of the stereotypes about Afghans perpetrated by Punjabi nationalists although nowhere near what people from Peshawar do or say.

About Quetta, I think if Afghans would have settled there rather then Peshawar they wouldn't feel so negatively about Pakistani Pashtoons. Peshawar is very strange and it seems the majority speak Pashto but don't live Pashto. They have accepted Punjabis as their brothers at the expense of Afghan Pashtoons and have lost a lot of their original culture at least as to those that are actually khaas Pukhtoon and not Punjabis who learned Pashto.

no mate people in fata i found to be v pro pashtun ..afridis and bajaur agency people are v pro pakistan ..have alot of frends from there especially..swat i found to be v pro pakistan because many pashtuns that u meet in cities of punjab are mostly from swat .. even most singers are from swat who are clearly pro pakistan ..yeah few exceptions are there but overall i found them to be the ones who are against afghans more as compared to peshawaris.. peshawaris will say bad things when they are angry but they will love u from inside.. and rest of kpk is v pro pakistan .its just somebody here mentioned abt walking the streets of kpk and fata and asking abt their opinion ..they are pretty pro pakistan ...even in fata there was a survey and none were nationalists in terms of united pashtunistan rather they were to make a province called qabailistan even they dnt wana join kpk ..stats are available too. at least in kpk u will find people who are in favour of united pashtunistan but in fata u wont
quetta are the ones who i find to be the one who love everybody and they consider themselves pashtuns frst and then anything even they consider themselves pashtuns frst and then muslim..

[rednwhite99]

this is wrong. FATA are the least pro paksitan. they don't even fly the paksitani flag there. just the recent invasion of FATA was the first time since the creation of pasktiani did the paskitani flag flew in fata.
People in Kurrum are mostly Shia and they ally themselves with the pak army because they need their support to balance themselves against the other tribes who are sunni but they do not accept the pak constitution, they are very independent.

i cant say abt all fata but the afridis mohmands and turis and wazirs that i have met are always talking pro pakistan..all the pso petrol pumps belong to these people..even in one of the cities in fata on 14 august the city walls were printed with the flag..there ws a recent survey that was done tooo about the people opinions on pakistan or independance..

[Pukhtoon]

no mate people in fata i found to be v pro pashtun ..afridis and bajaur agency people are v pro pakistan ..have alot of frends from there especially..swat i found to be v pro pakistan because many pashtuns that u meet in cities of punjab are mostly from swat .. even most singers are from swat who are clearly pro pakistan ..yeah few exceptions are there but overall i found them to be the ones who are against afghans more as compared to peshawaris.. peshawaris will say bad things when they are angry but they will love u from inside.. and rest of kpk is v pro pakistan .its just somebody here mentioned abt walking the streets of kpk and fata and asking abt their opinion ..they are pretty pro pakistan ...even in fata there was a survey and none were nationalists in terms of united pashtunistan rather they were to make a province called qabailistan even they dnt wana join kpk ..stats are available too. at least in kpk u will find people who are in favour of united pashtunistan but in fata u wont
quetta are the ones who i find to be the one who love everybody and they consider themselves pashtuns frst and then anything even they consider themselves pashtuns frst and then muslim..

I see - our experiences are vastly different. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I probably would never become friendly with an anti-Afghan Pashtoon so the ones who I have met end up being of a particular ideology more amenable to me. As to the people of Swat, the ones who live in Swat are much different then those who no longer live there - this has been my experience. As to Quetta, I don't agree that they put being Pashtoon before Islam, I only see that amongst some nationalist of any group or region but do agree about their views on Afghanistan - even abroad you see them associate freely with Afghans whereas people from other parts of KPK consider themselves Desi and a part of the South Asian community with Bengalis, Pakistanis, Indians, etc.

[khushal]

i cant say abt all fata but the afridis mohmands and turis and wazirs that i have met are always talking pro pakistan..all the pso petrol pumps belong to these people..even in one of the cities in fata on 14 august the city walls were printed with the flag..there ws a recent survey that was done tooo about the people opinions on pakistan or independance..

I have already said The flag thing is with the recent army invasion. Please read before posting a reply. The ones you have met are pro paksitan because they have business interests with the state, they don't represent the regular folk. But the constitution of Pakistan does not apply in FATA, they have their own court system. Also the TTP fighters are mostly from FATA and they belong to the tribes that you mentioned.
Let us see the survey, don't keep it a secret.

[rednwhite99]

I have already said The flag thing is with the recent army invasion. Please read before posting a reply. The ones you have met are pro paksitan because they have business interests with the state, they don't represent the regular folk. But the constitution of Pakistan does not apply in FATA, they have their own court system. Also the TTP fighters are mostly from FATA and they belong to the tribes that you mentioned.
Let us see the survey, don't keep it a secret.

MAte it is federralyy administered so what do u think it is administered fromm fata ..constitution applies there nate..ttp fighter belong to those tribe because they wana have islamic sharia law in pakistan , they are the ones who stated that if there is a war between pak india they will be a part of it in defending pakistan..ttp actually has very negative views abt afghanistan ..afghan talibs on the other hand also kill a lot of people in afghanistan so does that make them anti afghan..i think talib are pro extremismm

[rednwhite99]

MAte it is federralyy administered so what do u think it is administered fromm fata ..constitution applies there nate..ttp fighter belong to those tribe because they wana have islamic sharia law in pakistan , they are the ones who stated that if there is a war between pak india they will be a part of it in defending pakistan..ttp actually has very negative views abt afghanistan ..afghan talibs on the other hand also kill a lot of people in afghanistan so does that make them anti afghan..i think talib are pro extremismm

Tribal lawmakers oppose move to merge Fata with KP - DAWN.COM

Qabailistan province proposed - thenews.com.pk

Public Opinion in Pakistan