Pashtun woman, a challenge to the conscience of the Humanity and human rights groups.

[Feroza_Banu]

There's no need to paint rosy pictures, just an intellectually honest one; which doesn't seem to be the case here.

yes exactly. u answered ur own post.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Sociology and Ecology are not Philosophizing; they're real factors in how culture and society develops their values and gain knowledge of what's Valid or invalid. To disregard these premises and make emotionalized polemics, bereft of sound, intellectually honest logical analysis, would only demonstrate that this alleged concern for women is disingenuous and is only being used as a pretext for other agendas, particular ones which promote desecration, destruction and dysfunction. Which would in turn be quite misogynistic. This isn't an apology for injustice, IN fact quite the contrary; it is a method to determine what is actually injustice so that it can be honestly addressed or what is evidently shallow attempts at distortion, which use theatrics for vain attempts at maligning proper values and concepts. It is from understanding sociological and ecological contexts that we can assess which things are actually right and which ones must be addressed.

It would be foolhearty to dismiss the idea of America's various stages of intervention and interference as not somehow a a catalyst in social deteriorations whether directly or as a consequence. Furthermore I would not bound things to merely the apparent vehicle of America, but rather the entire Hegemony imposed by Imperial Enterprise for several centuries. This problem is not merely focused on Pashtoons but the entire world. If we want to improve the condition of Pashtoon women and more over humanity in general and our beloved Planet; we must Liberate our planet from the corrupt institutions and their technocratically imposed hegemony for everyone to return back to a state of balance.

As for famous female Pashtoon writers or poetesses; fame does not demonstrate anything, even though there are famous poetesses and Pashtaney leaders, Nazo Ana comes to mind. However, Nazo Ana was daughter of a tribal chief; most of the Shairan of Afghanistan were shpoon and shpaney, not elites. It is known in our culture that Pashtoon women from the Dasht to the Shar are engaged in poetry and couplets. We are not here to measure the virtues by some manufactured standards which have corruptly imposed itself on the world.

Even Rudyard Kipling made note of how Pashtoon women would support their men and would encourage them to defend against the Infidel invader for their religion and ardent way of life; because this was what was how human life became in harmony with Nature and thus actualized justice, rather than embracing their looser and shallow standards of morality. If the normative values, not the corrupted deviations, were intrinsically hostile to Pashtoon women; this would never be the case. Rather than try to support the exploitation of women through the delusion of liberation. We should liberate our world from these vices of corruption.

[ScimitarXEdge]

yes exactly. u answered ur own post.

But I was saying your post was intellectually dishonest. so I didn't answer my own post.

[ScimitarXEdge]

in pashtoon society, women don't even exist... and u are talking about freedom? u r preaching to the choir.

If women don't exist why is there such a strong emphasize on the values that pertain to women?

I feel you're being theatric or perhaps somewhat disingenuous here.

[Dreamer]

Pashtun women are used and abused.... rise up! U have nothing 2 lose but ur chains....

[Dreamer]

If women don't exist why is there such a strong emphasize on the values that pertain to women?

I feel you're being theatric or perhaps somewhat disingenuous here.

women in pashtun culture are thought of as objects... a man can fornicate and its "ok" hell breaks lose if a woman even talks 2 a guy... talk abt double standards....

[ScimitarXEdge]

women in pashtun culture are thought of as objects... a man can fornicate and its "ok" hell breaks lose if a woman even talks 2 a guy... talk abt double standards....

Insomuch of that example, this actually wouldn't serve your argument; If the crime exists amongst Pashtoons then both the male and female are brought to burden.

If a Pashtoon male does something with a Non-Pashtoon female; there maybe some absolution as he's not compromising the sanctity of Pashtoon reproductive order and thus isn't disparaged for it. Where as the issue of pashtoon women and liasons with males violates society's reproductive order. This would be the exact contrary of seeing women, at least ethnic kin as objects.

This however isn't right, but it's not gender apartheid as it is racism, which is also bad, but that's a different context.

Ideas which objectivize women aren't normative values of Pashtoons but deviations of those values.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Pashtun women are used and abused.... rise up! U have nothing 2 lose but ur chains....

Except being bound by other chains in other forms as is being promoted by some under the guise of "modernization" and development. We should not argue one extreme to defeat another, such strategies are always foolish.

[faye]

it's ok..

I never thought of it that way, that's actually very possible since there are theories regarding how AIDS was created due to colonial interference.

i already know the rave, since about 20 years. a predictable response but not the point.
the point i am making is that societies lived like you suggest, over the centuries but there were still wars and different types of inhumane behaviours. ie; mentally i'll people considered possessed, albino children outcasts etc.
don't assume that i am advocating the western lifestyle to pashtun people, i have many criticisms of it myself but there are some good things of the west. hence you educating yourself there (and grunge music, like you used to b into)

[Dreamer]

Insomuch of that example, this actually wouldn't serve your argument; If the crime exists amongst Pashtoons then both the male and female are brought to burden.

If a Pashtoon male does something with a Non-Pashtoon female; there maybe some absolution as he's not compromising the sanctity of Pashtoon reproductive order and thus isn't disparaged for it. Where as the issue of pashtoon women and liasons with males violates society's reproductive order. This would be the exact contrary of seeing women, at least ethnic kin as objects.

This however isn't right, but it's not gender apartheid as it is racism, which is also bad, but that's a different context.

Ideas which objectivize women aren't normative values of Pashtoons but deviations of those values.

dude... no matter how u dress it up pashtun women are treated like dirt... chained to the house and to be married off at their fathers whim... To progress we must throw off these "traditions" progress and not regress

[graveyardofempires]

I have reported your post. you have personally attacked me. if you lack the ability to argue respectfully, then you shouldn't have a place in this forum.

how about you show some respect to Afghan women and stop talking on their behalf and generalizing.
your friend Osho calls conservative Afghan women hijab wearing prostitutes and jumping here defending western culture pushing it upon us in the name of "freedom" and "progress".
afghan social problems are to be adressed,just dont use it as a pretext to continue the invasion of Afghanistan.

[graveyardofempires]

i already know the rave, since about 20 years. a predictable response but not the point.
the point i am making is that societies lived like you suggest, over the centuries but there were still wars and different types of inhumane behaviours. ie; mentally i'll people considered possessed, albino children outcasts etc.
don't assume that i am advocating the western lifestyle to pashtun people, i have many criticisms of it myself but there are some good things of the west. hence you educating yourself there (and grunge music, like you used to b into)

Faye you are right there are lots of good things about western culture but its the bad things that are pushed upon Afghanistan.im not judging the western culture and its good they are hanging on to their culture.
Afghan culture folklore and mind set is different but they too want the same as you or anyone else.
afghans want their children be educated be it a boy or a girl,they dont even have that luxery to send their kids to school.

these people on here using some Afghan social problems to justify their invasion of the country.what they forget is that Afghanistan has had war for the last 3 decades and didnt have the pause to solve thier social problems.

[kakargirl]

Pashtun women are used and abused.... rise up! U have nothing 2 lose but ur chains....

dreamer i dont know which pashtun women these are maybe from pahktun khwa there certainly not kandahrian pashtun women not our women they more respected than any women they rule the house like military back home there the toughest women i know so maybe in your area they get treated like dirt not in our areas .

[Dreamer]

dreamer i dont know which pashtun women these are maybe from pahktun khwa there certainly not kandahrian pashtun women not our women they more respected than any women they rule the house like military back home there the toughest women i know so maybe in your area they get treated like dirt not in our areas .

the whole point is that they shouldnt be restricted to the house.... they shld be encouraged to particpate in life and in all fields of life etc

[faye]

i am aware that afghanistan has had all of these invaders and i think, becuse of that there is possibly an overprotecteness of your women, because of the invaders (to keep them away from being kidnapped or harmed)
that is just a consideration. i don't know all of the traditions and laws of afghanistan regarding women. i will study and learn. kakargirl is following her culture and i have told her, even though we live different i admire her for that.