Pashtun woman, a challenge to the conscience of the Humanity and human rights groups.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Now to address the main issue here.

The issue in Pashtoon societies or Any society with regards to women, whether East Asian, African, South American or European is not the deficiency of Modern Education or the surplus of modern education. Neither it is hijab or burqa or concepts of honor, or traditional values or lack of any of these. Rather the issue is whether the relationships between males and females is out of balance with Nature. This is not something ancient or modern but pervasive in life itself.

In Nature males and females are complimentary beings, they each have characteristics of each other and at the same time distinctions between each other which lend support together to operate society. More fundamentally males germinate and cultivate life and females engender, nurture and sustain life. Make not this is not merely in respects to the act of reproduction itself; but also other aspects of human existence. This delineates into different social roles/operations between the two; neither really takes precedence but some have a more overt appearance of strength and thereby authority, than the other but fundamentally their merit are equally important to life.

It is by this standard that we must view and understand what is appropriate and beneficial for women and men alike. Both the Modern and so called traditional societies have Lost sight of that and this is where they come up with errant approaches. Women should be educated, they should have adequate facilities to be cared for and have their needs met, they should be cherished and honored, their contributions should be acknowledged in all spheres of life and their ideas should be heard. They should be respected, never ill treated without any just warrant. This applies similarly with males, However, this must be done in accord to what our drives and faculties have been given an intrinsic disposition towards which is attuned to nature.

The problem with many So called Modernistic Approaches is that they attempt to define human life and the roles of people by very artificial and manufactured constructs and these conflict with our drives and faculties. I say the "so called "Modern" societies because they attempt at making it seem like their way of life and mode of operations is somehow an advancement, when it's not. It's really a facade made by Industrial Capitalist societies to validate their destructive way of life. What happens is men and women end up becoming exploited both by the institutions that operate society and each other as a result of being habituated by such an environment. This is especially true in regards to women; this system of operations attempts to alienate women from their natural drives and faculties which is violating their lives thereby becomes exploitation; since it's using women without supporting their faculties. These societies attempt to delude women that they are being liberated by being subject to such exploitation which keeps them pacified to it. In the process she becomes a commodity to sustain this manufactured way of life and thus ultimately is placed in a state of dysfunction and self destruction. The deception of economic and social independence is solely designed to degrade women and make it easier for their exploitation. For if she is lead to believe she's being repressed by familial and social supports protecting her, then she will then have to depend on the corrupt status quo which which require her to be alienated or commodified to sustain herself. This is all legal in Capitalist Industrial societies, and is deemed normal, but this is in actuality physically,, psychologically and emotionally desecrating women.

The problem with our Traditional societies is we have taken things to extremes. We have forgotten the real essence of the concepts of honor, the purpose of burqa and hijab and how to value our women. The concept of Honor is to protect and cherish women; teach them that they are more than vices for entertainment and that their beauty is sacred not a dispensed resource for public consumption. It is to emphasize the ecological relationships of sexuality being for the cultivation and nurturing of life and satisfaction between partners who embark on this journey. In Islam only hijab is required, burqa is only something that is up to the discretion of the women and her partner. And even with the requirement of Hijab, it is a Secondary or even Tertiary matter, what counts most is her personal morality in terms of the choices she makes, the hijab only is relevant after this. So we must not deem women without hijab as bad Muslims solely on such an account. It is a sin but minor sin, so we must not knit pick for we all do such things. Imposing burqa is extreme, and so is subjecting women to strict confinement. It is unnatural to be confined to a home all the time; women need to experience sunlight and move, women like men evolved in nature so her senses like the man's senses are attuned to stimuli of the Natural world. Hijab and Burqa are intended to be virtuous practices for human social betterment; people who try to portray Hijab or Burqas as "walking coffins" are merely using a psychological ploy. in the societies which are falsely deemed more "advanced" women are paraded like circus animals; dehumanized to no end, this is more akin to being a coffin than hijab or burqa, but we must address veiling in a respectable and balanced manner. This isnt to encourage women to move from her family; but understanding the difference between healthful behavior and unhealthy behavior. The role of mahram is to protect the sanctity of women, it is not to subject women into confinement but rather ensure their well being is cultivated; but at the same time guarding the sanctity of women is not done by sending women away to other places away from family or known people; The degree of mahram involvement should be addressed, it should neither prevent women from fulfilling their talents and needs nor should it allow opportunity for women to become degraded. Those who are arguing against Mahram entirely involvement are essentially arguing to subject women to exploitation. The proper approach is the middle ground.

There are many problems in Pashtoon society or any society about how women are treated; But if we reestablish the correct understanding of our values our women and men would be Truly Liberated, we need not sacrifice our amend our values but fulfill them as they are intended to be. The women of Capitalist/Imperial/Industrial societies are degraded perhaps even more so because of the values of their society; so we should not take after their model. But we have to be honest to ourselves and reassess misused practices.

[da_ghaljay_shamar]

Child pornography, sex with minors, selling of buying of human beings or sex or other purposes is a crime in the West and if any one perpetrate these crimes is a criminal and punishible by law.If American troops does it or any body all must be condemned equally. I am sure American will be unaware of such heinous crimes. If any body has any concrete proof o these crimes must share it here and send it to the Minisry of Interior of Afghanistan if you cant manage sending it to USA or NATO headquarters.

Also think over it that for such crimes we are equally responsable. If one buys a child for bad purposes, the other sells it. Both buyer and seller are to be blamed. Then in Afghanistan we have a democratic government of local people with a parliament and such issues should be stopped by the local authorities.

it is the American occupation that you have been singing songs of praise about who are making this lawlessness and havoc possible where all these crimes occur.


The very same sell-outs who joined Russians in occupying our home land and massacring our people are now doing the exact same job as they did 20 years ago by helping the "Capitalist" invaders.

And if the Americans are unaware of these crimes, then the Americans must be blind because the buses loaded with women that enter army bases all across Afghanistan to spend the night with the troops and to leave in the next morning are probably ghosts. And the people who monitor army bases of Americans must be hallucinating.


And yes, we are responsible for these crimes. We have among us, people like you and your fellow supporters of humiliation and occupation of our homeland who go around writing trash claiming that you are concerned about the well being of our women.

[faye]

as a woman in an industrialised society and never having classified myself as a feminist, i believe we have choice. with at least a reasonable education, one is capable of deciphering if something is rubbish or not. women here are not degraded by the values of society but by the 'negative' values of this society. we do have some positive ones, scimitarxedge.
feminist ideas also, like yours, still categorise women as victims. women need to take responsibily for their conditioning and their choices. it horrifies me here, in oz, that i can't find women who are politically conscious. they are there, i know, somewhere...
i went to muslim homes in borneo, iran and india, so i have seen some of those powerhouse women and seen that they are happy. if i was a feminist i may not have been able to acknowledge that.

[Badlun]

Living in unison with nature is a blessing and should be enjoyed by both men and women equally. One of the demand of the nature is freedom, the greates value in human life . To be free politically, socially and economically is what human nature demands. The problem is to give this right of freedom to Pashtun women too. They should be masters of their own will and free to have their own political, social and economic choice. Pashtun women, 35 million human beings are deprived of this fundamnetal right not now but since centuries specially the amalgam of extremist Islam and Pashtunwali.

This is not american who have deprived them of their basic rights of the culprits is the Pashtun society, so called values and wrong application of religion. Wrong application in the sense that religion is only for your beliefs, worship and ethics notr for your dress, jobs, education, politics and social responsabilities.

If the husband is scientist then the wife should also be the same or similar. Only home affairs for women is underestimating their talent and dignity. They can be presidents, prime ministers, pilots, business persons, scientists, professors like their fellow men.

Liberation of Pashtun women is not to create imbalance in society. Two professions, one male the other female can love each other the same way as one professor and one illiterate woman. Love has nothing to do with material things. To tell you the truth even the Pashtun women are not aware of the true love, sex and physical enjoyments of a couple. There is no sex education and many many Pashtun women even leading 60 years of lie may not know what is love and what is a real relationship.

This is not just eminism. It is struggeling for the basic human rights for Pashtun women. If ignorance make the Pashtun women happy then this is not what human beings should be happy with.

[faye]

osho, something i thought once and still believe, is, that the smartest people on this planet ARE the ones who are happy being here.
i am not saying women shouldn't have more education etc, but being a good mother and homemaker is a sublime art. i don't have that ability so when i see a woman doing that successfully, it is a beautiful creation and i admire it.

[Badlun]

No body is against home making, family, children education, upbringing etc but if a mother gives birth to a child does not mean that now only she is the only responsable for that child. father is equally responsable. Mother has already done a great job by haing the baby for none months, then the delivery and then the feeding. Father should also play his role in this whole scenarioo.

Similalry Mother should taste her own eaarned money.her own political activity, her own free socializing , her free cultural, literary, artistic activity. She is after all a human being with the same feelings, senses, desires, apetites, sensations, sentiments as a man. Why lock her in the home by the name of family, home making and give the whole world to the man.

Home is beautiful and important but offices, shops, beaches, jungles, deserts, air, oceans,, glaciers, peaks, markets, plants, animals, mosques, jergas, assemblies, parliamnets, presidencies, ministeries, art galleries, parks and gardens are equally important and beautiul.

[unknownprince]

Osho

You probably never smelled the rotten body of victims of rape and torture after your murtad army and your crusader troops have "conducted an operation" in those villages.

[unknownprince]

You probably never smelled the rotten body of victims of rape and torture after your murtad army and your crusader troops have "conducted an operation" in those villages.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Living in unison with nature is the essence of human life, and all life in general; when I say unison it's refering to the processes and functions between organisms and their Environment which cultivated their essential drives. How freedom is defined and determined is based on that premise.

Being that is so we find that Genuine "freedom" must be those which are to serve and support those faculties. Anything which deviates or interferes or alienates those things is not a freedom at all, but is oppression and corruption. We find that most contemporary constructs of occupation and civilizational structure as being no longer in unison with Nature. The criteria for

Although women can/do these jobs and men can/do contribute to the home these are not their primary dispositions. Most sciences and fields of technical knowledge, governing/organizational systems were developed by men, not because males prevented women from achieving in them, but because in Evolution; males were disposed to activities which required the cultivation of these skills, where as women because of their child bearing ability became intrisically disposed towards cultivating domestic environment. This does not mean men or women are incapable of the other, but that their aptitudes tend to be such that they tend to excel at one more than the other. This is why it was previously stated that males and females both partially share attributes as well as posess complimentary attributes which distinguish each other. These distinguishments formed the natural basis for the roles men and women manifested in society. This is what determines Freedom. Anything which interferes or attempts at deviating and directing that becomes exploitation; and such exploitation is destructive as it alienates us from fulfilling the drives we are disposed to. So women must be participant in society, Socially, Economically and Politically but not in the same manner as males and vice versa; why? Because it's destructive to do so. Doing so would be robbing freedom, not giving it. Hence why it was stated that such societies decay people, and in this case women but delude them to believe it's liberty. It is for this reason Pashtun women have the potential to be the most liberated if only a few adjustments are made in how we practices our values; not the values themselves. Only those who are lost to balance and harmony in Nature views the domestic operations which are essential to life as limiting or repressive or deem women as pilots as "liberating" or that casual socializing as tasting the "world". Such arguments are distorting the word Freedom as a pretext for exploitation. Using egocentered agitation to steer people, and in this case women to comply to it blinded by misguided emotion.

Men and women do have the same feelings and wants; but in a complimentary manner, this is key to understand them both.

Let it be understood however that this should be distinguished from confining women under four walls, this is where we must recall that men and women both are children of Nature. They had developed these faculties within Nature, not four walls, both must experience the air, see the grass, see the sun. There's no reason why women cannot express opinions or have her views heard, that women should not gain knowledge which can be useful to support her intrinsic drives. Same goes for males. When however knowledge is being used to manipulate women or men

[faye]

liberty of person from slavery, detention or oppression+education=free choice.
there are people who have lived in the type of nature ordered (re; male and female roles) societies that are using rape as a weapon and slaughtering each other. re; some african countries, at the moment. people through history who have lived with the natural ordered roles, as you appear to define them, have still done atrocious things, invasions, occupations etc. that is not the only answer, in my opinion.

[Badlun]

In deed very useful discussion. Balance, symmetry, complementarity etc all are very good qualities. Also there are few biological and may be psychhological differences between men and women. Woman as Osho says is more ideal human being than man. She is more human, more humane and more nearer to nature than man. If one wants to see ideal human being then thats woman not man. She is more sincere, more sensible, more loving, more caring, more faithful , more sacrifycing etc. Having said that the ideal gender sensitization is to look at a person not whether she or he is male or female. There can be good women and good men or vice versa, bad women and bad men.

I hate when we quote such fabricated hadith that women is inferior to men in wisdom or logic. Or that woman is born from the left rib or that woman is crooked or woman is from satan or devil or that woman has 9 satans while man has one.Or that women are only for gor(grave) ot kor(house).

This is reality that Pashtun women are living miserable lives and we must admit this fact and must launch an organized struggle or Pashtun women emancipation from the cruel clutches of male chauvinists, mullas and vrutal traditions of religion and Pashtunwali.

If USA is in Afghanistan for some years dies not mean that Pashtun women are having their problems now. They have these problems from the time immomorial or specially after the mixing of Pashtunwali with extremist Islam. Pashtun women do have problems where USA is not present in pashtun world.Thus dont make USA as a scape goat for our failures.

[Alchemist]

In deed very useful discussion. Balance, symmetry, complementarity etc all are very good qualities. Also there are few biological and may be psychhological differences between men and women. Woman as Osho says is more ideal human being than man. She is more human, more humane and more nearer to nature than man. If one wants to see ideal human being then thats woman not man. She is more sincere, more sensible, more loving, more caring, more faithful , more sacrifycing etc. Having said that the ideal gender sensitization is to look at a person not whether she or he is male or female. There can be good women and good men or vice versa, bad women and bad men.

I hate when we quote such fabricated hadith that women is inferior to men in wisdom or logic. Or that woman is born from the left rib or that woman is crooked or woman is from satan or devil or that woman has 9 satans while man has one.Or that women are only for gor(grave) ot kor(house).

This is reality that Pashtun women are living miserable lives and we must admit this fact and must launch an organized struggle or Pashtun women emancipation from the cruel clutches of male chauvinists, mullas and vrutal traditions of religion and Pashtunwali.

If USA is in Afghanistan for some years dies not mean that Pashtun women are having their problems now. They have these problems from the time immomorial or specially after the mixing of Pashtunwali with extremist Islam. Pashtun women do have problems where USA is not present in pashtun world.Thus dont make USA as a scape goat for our failures.

mystery solved... osho is a New Ager.

[ScimitarXEdge]

liberty of person from slavery, detention or oppression+education=free choice.
there are people who have lived in the type of nature ordered (re; male and female roles) societies that are using rape as a weapon and slaughtering each other. re; some african countries, at the moment. people through history who have lived with the natural ordered roles, as you appear to define them, have still done atrocious things, invasions, occupations etc. that is not the only answer, in my opinion.

all due to external interference and distortion of their natural way of life.

Mainly of European origin; perfect example Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda.

[ScimitarXEdge]

If USA is in Afghanistan for some years dies not mean that Pashtun women are having their problems now. They have these problems from the time immomorial or specially after the mixing of Pashtunwali with extremist Islam. Pashtun women do have problems where USA is not present in pashtun world.Thus dont make USA as a scape goat for our failures.

Most of these problems did exist prior to Imperialist and capitalist interference and disruption of Natural way of life. People lived content within their ecological framework, women , men and everyone else.

there must be some type of connection. It didn't just appear out of nowhere.

If you don't examine the relationships of gender and their relevance, then it's not really gender sensitization as it has been phrased, because it disregards gender; making it logically inconsistent.

[faye]

yes...

all due to external interference and distortion of their natural way of life.

Mainly of European origin; perfect example Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda.

i have even heard an iraqi blame the americans for saddam wasting iraqi money, building all those palaces.