Wahabism and Misyar

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

What you should understand and as well as others is that the only reason some Sahabah might have done Mutah in the time of the Caliphs is all due to that all the Sahabah didnt live in one city or one place. Once Sahabah learnt Islam and becoem muslims they spread throughout the world. At that time distances were covered in weeks or months.

Example:

One /more Sahabah who lived in Madinah /Makkah practiced Mutah when it was legal ,he/they migrated to Yemen or another country or within the country far way from Madinah/Makkah, how would he know later that Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) had banned it if he wasnt present with the Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) at the time of banning it? Because at that time there were no telephones or internet communication as to inform of the update on the ban of Mutah.

So in that case the Sahabah /Sahabahs who wasnt in MAdina/Makkah but living other places would still do that practice until they would come to Madinah and when Hazrat Omar would know of them that they were doing still a banned practice ,he would ban it on them immediately ,and correct them and informing them of its ban done by the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

How vague your example is. So the sahaba who migrated to yemen didn't know that Mutah had been banned until Umar came and told him so. But Umar became Caliph after the death of the Prophet(SAW) and Abu Bakr!!!!! So all this time (10+ years, 10 years is a lot of time!!!!), this sahaba of yours didn't know ANYTHING going on in the Islamic capital?!! But how did he know that Umar had become the caliph (and authority as you say) then? He doesn't get the news that Muttah had been banned but he does get the news that Umar had become the caliph? So all these years he lived in ignorance LOL? And in all these 10+ years of Muslim Khaliphate, no Islamic authority/governor was sent to Yemen to inform them about different things; the sahaba didn't get informed in 10+ years?!? But even if say (LOL) that Umar informed this sahaba about Muttah being banned, but then again, what was Abu Bakr doing during his Caliphate? Why didn't he inform the Sahaba about Muttah being banned, if the prophet (SAW) had indeed banned it? Was Abu Bakr less authoritative than Umar? Or was he less "pious" than Umar?

And Secondly, didn't I show you the narrations (see above) where it says clearly that the Prophet (SAW) ALLOWED MUTTAH (and did not ban it) and this practice continued during the times of Abu Bakr (and half way through the caliphate of Umar)? Then how do you claim otherwise?

And thirdly, you don't have the slightest idea of what Nikkah Al Muttah is.

So either way you look at it MUTAH is banned. Wether you like it or not. And as I asked one of the other Shias . Would you like it that someone made Mutah to ur sister for a week ,enjoying her and then give her talaq , so the next man can do the same thing to her? No I dont think so. I think you know how degrading that is to a woman.How hurthful it is to her feelings beeing "used" by a man/men for a small time .

Nikkah al Muttah is not what you in mind, but even if it was, then let me ask you your own question: how would have the Sahaba brothers of those "sisters" felt who did Nikkah al muttah with some Sahaba during the times of the Prophet (SAW)? Didn't they know how "how degrading that is to a woman.How hurthful it is to her feelings beeing "used" by a man/men for a small time ." Didn't they know this? But you still consider them "pious" and everything. Why the irony?

Now just accept that Nikkah al Muttah WAS and IS halal and it was allowed during the times of the Prophet (SAW) and Abu Bakr and even half reign of Umar! Until Umar banned it for his own personal reasons. And whoever changes the laws set by Allah and his prophet (SAW) is bound to abode in hell (as said in Quran).
And it doesn't look good on resorting to making fun of others, I could, if i wanted to, post videos of drunk pirs dancing around (I mean literally dancing), but I know it doesn't suit me, unlike you.

[unknownprince]

Haider,

mutah is a practice from the time the Arabs before Islam were pagans and were ignorant.

It is haraam. It goes against everything written in the Quran and the Hadiths in regards to pre-marital sex.
I have never seen this Hadith before. the one I saw was very weak, and centers around the Prophet(pbuh) nodding his head as a sign of approval( which means nothing). Those words which you are attributing to him are from another Hadith in regards to something entirely different (nothing to do with mutah at all)

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

Haider,

mutah is a practice from the time the Arabs before Islam were pagans and were ignorant.

It is haraam. It goes against everything written in the Quran and the Hadiths in regards to pre-marital sex.
I have never seen this Hadith before. the one I saw was very weak, and centers around the Prophet(pbuh) nodding his head as a sign of approval( which means nothing). Those words which you are attributing to him are from another Hadith in regards to something entirely different (nothing to do with mutah at all)

Unknown Prince Gula,
The hadiths that I posted above are from Siha e Sitta (from Sahi Muslim and Bukhari). You can check it anywhere online from a Sunni website. I can even provide you the scanned pages from Sahi Bukhari in Urdu language. And as you can read in the above narrations, Mutah was ALLOWED during the times of the prophet (SAW). It's not me who is saying this, it's the hadiths that are saying it, it's the Prophet (SAW) (according to the above hadith) saying it. Who am I to say anything. Now if you think that the above narrations are fake and lies attributed towards the prophet (SAW) by the author of Sahi Muslim and Sahi Bukhari, then no one can do anything right. Also gula, if you haven't seen these narrations doesn't mean they don't exist.

[unknownprince]

I don't speak Urdu, so post the entire thing in English.

Please post it from the exact page.

Mutah was banned and deemed haram due to the Prophet's hadiths on pre-marital relations. Anyways, I don't have a deep understanding of Islam, you can debate with the other guy. And where is Sangar or Maiwand?

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

I don't speak Urdu, so post the entire thing in English.

Please post it from the exact page.

Mutah was banned and deemed haram due to the Prophet's hadiths on pre-marital relations. Anyways, I don't have a deep understanding of Islam, you can debate with the other guy. And where is Sangar or Maiwand?

The source from where these narrations are quoted is given under each hadith that I quoted (check my posts again). All of the hadiths are quoted from the english version of Sahi Al Bukhari and Sahi Muslim, from this site so check it out.

[unknownprince]

This is a weak hadith though, and is always used by people to support mutah whereas there are far more that contradict this exact hadith. Some more religiously informed person here will tell you. Im just putting in my two cents.

It was a practice that predated Islam, and that is enough to know it had no significance to Islam. The Prophet(pbuh) has never said: MUTAH IS HALAL.

[unknownprince]

The source from where these narrations are quoted is given under each hadith that I quoted (check my posts again). All of the hadiths are quoted from the english version of Sahi Al Bukhari and Sahi Muslim, from this site so check it out.

ok, will do.

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

This is a weak hadith though, and is always used by people to support mutah whereas there are far more that contradict this exact hadith. Some more religiously informed person here will tell you. Im just putting in my two cents.

It was a practice that predated Islam, and that is enough to know it had no significance to Islam. The Prophet(pbuh) has never said: MUTAH IS HALAL.

So far I have posted narrations from Siha e Sitta only because I thought you deemed these books and the narrations they contain to be "Sahi" and hence the name, "Sahi" Bukhari, "Sahi" Muslim etc. But there's a lot of material in other Ahle Sunnah books in support of Muttah, but I didn't post it yet because I thought it would be deemed "weak". Many practices predate Islam that were later incorporated into Islam, and are now integral part of Islam. For example, pagans from different places would come and do tawaf around the kaaba to the idols inside of it. Today, we do the tawaf to kaaba, but today there are no idols inside of it. So the practice of tawaf to kaaba is still there but the concept has changed. Similarly, something similar to Nikah al Muttah could have existed in pre-islamic arab society (although I dont know about it), but that doesn't mean that the Nikkal Al Muttah the prophet allowed was the same thing as the one the pagans indulged in.

[unknownprince]

mutah is haraam, and by the way also contradicts not only Islam, but also our traditions and rules.

I don't have enough Islamic knowledge to comment on this. Someone else can, but it clearly contradicts basic Islamic teaching on chastity and modesty (which is mentioned in the Quran)

Mutah was practiced by pagan Arabs before Islam, and it was banned and deemed un-Islamic. It is a pagan practice.

Also in regards to the Kabaa, Ibrahim (as) built it originally for the worship of Allah(swt), but pagan Arabs took it over in time to worship idols and fornicate with each other.

[Fahd]

i remember important things about shiite
they saying that anal sex is halal hahahahaha astghferallah whats a shame !!!!
sorry about the bad word but i don't have other words to explaine it (ma english not good )
so what about that !!!!
salam im going to sleep

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

mutah is haraam, and by the way also contradicts not only Islam, but also our traditions and rules.

I don't have enough Islamic knowledge to comment on this. Someone else can, but it clearly contradicts basic Islamic teaching on chastity and modesty (which is mentioned in the Quran)

Mutah was practiced by pagan Arabs before Islam, and it was banned and deemed un-Islamic. It is a pagan practice.

Also in regards to the Kabaa, Ibrahim (as) built it originally for the worship of Allah(swt), but pagan Arabs took it over in time and worship idols and fornicated with each other.

Now unknownprince gula you tell me what to make of this comment where at one place you say you don't have enough islamic knowledge on the issue, and at another place you claim Mutah to be haraam. I agree, it does not fit with our Pashtun values (and although Nikah Al muttah is deemed halal by Shia Islam, not many Shia Muslims know about it, let alone indulge in it), but that doesn't make it haraam; there are many practices that wouldn't suit our "values" but they don't become haram nonetheless. Nikah Al Muttah is not what you have been presented by anti-Shia scholars. I will try to post some detailed articles on it some time. But it definitely is not haram as shown in the above hadith, did you check those hadiths?

PS: I hope this Fahd guy is not older than 8, for that would be a disgrace and shame to humanity.

[unknownprince]

Brother Haider,

what I mean is that I am passing my opinion, and I know it is haraam. however, I am not informed of all the hadiths like some other more religiously informed members here, and maybe I should avoid these threads all together.

What I do know is that you could only show me one very weak Hadith (that if I am to accept as true) does not explicitly state that Mutah is halal. Now from what we know about Islam and its teachings on chastity and modesty, it is definite to say mutah is haram. To accept mutah means one has to then reject what is written in the Quran about chastity and modesty. Thats what my limited knowledge on Islam allows me to say. Also, there was a hadith on that same website where the Prophet gives no positive response to a person asking about this ( the one by Abu Hurairah- you should also post that one too).




You offer one hadith that does not offer strong support for mutah being halal.

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

Brother Haider,

what I mean is that I am passing my opinion, and I know it is haraam. however, I am not informed of all the hadiths like some other more religiously informed members here, and maybe I should avoid these threads all together.

What I do know is that you could only show me one very weak Hadith (that if I am to accept as true) does not explicitly state that Mutah is halal. Now from what we know about Islam and its teachings on chastity and modesty, it is definite to say mutah is haram. To accept mutah means one has to then reject what is written in the Quran about chastity and modesty. Thats what my limited knowledge on Islam allows me to say. Also, there was a hadith on that same website where the Prophet gives no positive response to a person asking about this ( the one by Abu Hurairah- you should also post that one too).




You offer one hadith that does not offer strong support for mutah being halal.

You won't find many things that aren't explicitly deemed to be Halal by the Prophet(SAW) himself to be halal but that are halal today. And Nikah Al Mutah does not contradict modesty. As I said I will post some articles in details, about Nkah Al Muttah, and then if you still had questions, maybe we would discuss it then. Inshallah I will continue this discussion some other time, I am studying right now. I will take all the questions into consideration and respond accordingly, that is if I get the free time to do so, because I have exams starting tomorrow. Anyways, Khudai Pa Aman for now.

[Fahd]

haider jaaan
tell me what u think about ur ppl saying that sex from back is halal ????
is it halal for u !!

[Dreamer]

haider jaaan
tell me what u think about ur ppl saying that sex from back is halal ????
is it halal for u !!

dont be so disgusting