Some AuliaAllah from Around the World

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

That word is in brackets. Does not Salafeeism mean to go back to the roots, that is the time of the Prophet (saw), the Golden Age? Correct me if I am wrong.

[Maiwand]

I agree with you, however, going back to the golden age (salafeeism) is not that simple. The Quran is not that simple to be taken literal.

ahaha, so you think that the Quran is sent only for a chosen elite from among the mankind? Doesn't God say in many instances in the Quran that is is sent as a reminder, guide, clear book, criterion to judge between right and wrong, light, wisdom, for whole of mankind? The Quran should be taken literally, because it is 100% the word of God. Every rational human being without prejudice is capable and has to be capable of understanding it, otherwise God would be discrminating and he would not be fair.

[Maiwand]

That word is in brackets. Does not Salafeeism mean to go back to the roots, that is the time of the Prophet (saw), the Golden Age? Correct me if I am wrong.

No it doesn't mean that at all. We don't have a kind of time-machine with which we can go back in time. The meaning of real Islam is the apply the universal and timeless message of Islam in our own lives in every place and at every time, as it was practiced by the prophet and the sahaba, of course it doesn't mean we have to import camels to Europe and wear the same clothes as them and rebuilt Medina in Amsterdam, it just means that we have to apply the same teachings, laws, rules and standards of the Quran and sunnah in our times.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

ahaha, so you think that the Quran is sent only for a chosen elite from among the mankind? Doesn't God say in many instances in the Quran that is is sent as a reminder, guide, clear book, criterion to judge between right and wrong, light, wisdom, for whole of mankind? The Quran should be taken literally, because it is 100% the word of God. Every rational human being without prejudice is capable and has to be capable of understanding it, otherwise God would be discrminating and he would not be fair.

My dearest brother,

I know what you are saying but it is not as simple as that. I will give you one example, a very simple example: Alif Laam Meem.

I could go on and go, but I just thought to keep it really simple just to illustrate the depth of the Quran.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

No it doesn't mean that at all. We don't have a kind of time-machine with which we can go back in time. The meaning of real Islam is the apply the universal and timeless message of Islam in our own lives in every place and at every time, as it was practiced by the prophet and the sahaba, of course it doesn't mean we have to import camels to Europe and wear the same clothes as them and rebuilt Medina in Amsterdam, it just means that we have to apply the same teachings, laws, rules and standards of the Quran and sunnah in our times.

I was not referring literally.


You and I basically said the same. I guess I don't stand corrected.

[شمله ور خراساني]

That word is in brackets. Does not Salafeeism mean to go back to the roots, that is the time of the Prophet (saw), the Golden Age? Correct me if I am wrong.

The understanding of quran and sunnah according to Salaf as saalih ( the first three generations of muslims ) is shortened to Salafiyyah.

Salafism has a negative connotation. It sounds like Qadianism.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

"ism" in English is "iyyah" in Arabic.

I was not trying to be condescending. Please accept my apologies.

[Maiwand]

My dearest brother,

I know what you are saying but it is not as simple as that. I will give you one example, a very simple example: Alif Laam Meem.

I could go on and go, but I just thought to keep it really simple just to illustrate the depth of the Quran.

well the aleef laam meem are not really essentialm when building a truly islamic personality and state/society. The important rules, laws and regulations are very clearly stated in the quran and hadiths, there is no ambiguity about that. In the small matter there can be difference of opinion, that's why we have fiqh and ijtihad, that is no problem. So it is actually very simple, only people make it complicated and complex. For example everyone knows what the punnishment on theft is or on adultery, or that usury is prohibited in all its forms and also alcohol etc. Every human being is capable of comprehending the meaning of the Quran that is needed to implement on the state level and in the personal life.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

The fact that ijtihad exists means that the Quran is not as simple as you might want it to be.

Are you saying that we should cut the hand of every thief?

[Maiwand]

The fact that ijtihad exists means that the Quran is not as simple as you might want it to be.

Are you saying that we should cut the hand of every thief?

The quran is simple, but you still need to study it thoroughy, with simple I mean that is not incomprehensible or above the intelligence of an average human being. Everyone can understand the main message if he tries it with sincerity and with the help of prophetic guidance and his example. ijtihad is mainly for small and minor issues, every scholar and rational human being agrees on the important issues, only hypocrites and people with diseases in their hearts will twist the meanings of the verses and say that the book is not understandable by ordinary people, so you should go to him to understand it, like some sects do, they create intermediaries and hierarchies between god and humans, the very things that islam came to abolish, because the christians and jews were doomed and misguided in that way, they eventually left the books of gods and followed their rabbi's and monks blindly and remained ignorant and fools and easily manipulated by those people in authority. the prophet has said that the muslims would follow them (jews and christians) even into a lizard's hole, but only the true believers will adhere at all times to the true teachings of islam and go to paradise. those will be 1 in 1000 people, as recorded in many sahih hadiths.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

My brother, in essence you have agreed with me.

Going back, to my question: Should the hand of every thief be chopped off?

[Maiwand]

My brother, in essence you have agreed with me.

Going back, to my question: Should the hand of every thief be chopped off?

I didn't agree with you because you said in the beginning that those clear verses that I had posted will only be understood by people who knew the context, I proved to you that those verses are inherently clear and everyone with an open mind can understand them and know that the practices of sufism and other sects clearly contradict with those quranic injunctions.

As far as the cutting of the hand of a thief is conserned, yes the hand should be chopped off in these circumstances:

“[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they earned [i.e. committed] as a deterrent [punishment] from Allaah. And Allaah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” [Quran 5:38]

What indicates that this ruling is definitive is the fact that a Makhzoomi noblewoman (from the tribe of Makhzoom) stole at the time of the Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, and Usaamah Ibn Zayd, may Allaah be pleased with him, wanted to intercede for her. The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, became angry and said:
“Do you intercede concerning one of the Hadd set by Allaah? Those who came before you were destroyed because if a rich man among them stole, they would let him off, but if a lowly person stole, they would carry out the punishment on him. By Allaah, if Faatimah Bint (daughter of) Muhammad were to steal, I would cut off her hand.” [Al-Bukhaari]


The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said:



“The hand (of the thief) should be cut off for (the theft of) a quarter of a Dinar or more.” [Al-Bukhaari]
The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, cursed the thief because he is a corrupt element in society, and if he is left unpunished, his corruption will spread and infect the body of the Ummah (Muslim community).

He, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, said:
“May Allaah curse the thief who steals an egg and has his hand cut off, or steals a rope and has his hand cut off.” [Al-Bukhaari]

these are the conditions:

These conditions are as follows:
1- The thing should have been taken by stealth; if it was not taken by stealth, then the hand should not be cut off, such as when property has been seized by force in front of other people, because in this case the owner of the property could have asked for help to stop the thief.
2- The stolen property should be something of worth, because that which is of no worth has no sanctity, such as musical instruments, wine and pigs.
2- The value of the stolen property should be above a certain limit, which is three Islamic Dirhams or a quarter of an Islamic Dinar, or their equivalent in other currencies.
3- The stolen property should have been taken from a place where it had been put away, i.e., a place where people usually put their property, such as a cupboard, for example.
4- The theft itself has to be proven, either by the testimony of two qualified witnesses or by the confession of the thief twice.
5- The person from whom the property was stolen has to ask for it back; if he does not, then (the thief’s) hand does not have to be cut off.
If these conditions are fulfilled, then the hand must be cut off. If this ruling was applied in the societies which are content with man-made laws and which have cast aside the Sharee’ah of Allaah and replaced it with human laws, this would be the most beneficial treatment for this phenomenon. But the matter is as Allaah Says (what means):
“Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allaah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].” [Quran 5:50]

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Now, who will bear the burden of a handicapped person?

[Maiwand]

Now, who will bear the burden of a handicapped person?

read the above text carefully


by the way the hudud are only carried out by an islamic government (with shariah law).

[Pakhtun_Policy]

They all need to be given a bullet immediately for their inefficiency. Due to them Muslims suffer all over the world.

The first bullet should be given to you , because you blame others for your own sufferings which is due to you not following Quran and Sunnah as it should be. Muslims wouldnt be suffering around the world if we had gone to these Holy ones for help ,because Allah describes it clearly in Quran:



Allah said in Quran:

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاَةَ وَيُؤُْونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ


Verily, your Walee (Protector or Helper) is Allah, His Messenger صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم , and the believers, - those who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, and they bow down.
[Maida:55].

Who are these "believers"? These are those Holy ones that we need to seek help from in times of need. There is a Hadith regards this:

“It is narrated by ‘Ammār bin Yāsir (رضی اللہ عنہ) that a beggar came up to ‘Alī (رضی اللہ عنہ) and stood beside him. He رضی اللہ عنہ was kneeling in prayer. He رضی اللہ عنہ pulled out his ring and he gave the ring to the beggar. Then ‘Alī (رضی اللہ عنہ) called on the Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) and told him the news. At this occasion, this verse was revealed to him: (Surely your (helping) friend is Allāh and His Messenger and (along with them) are the believers who establish prayers, pay zakāh and bow down (in humility before Allāh Subhana Wa Taala ). Allāh’s Messenger (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) read out the verse and said: One who has me as his master has ‘Alī as his master. O Allāh! Be his friend who befriends him (‘Alī) and be his enemy who is his enemy.” (Ahmad bin Hambal narrated it in al-Musnad (1:119; 4:372); Tabarānī related it in al-Mu‘jam-ul-awsat (7:129, 130 # 6228), al-Mu‘jam-ul-kabīr (4:174 # 4053; 5:195, 203, 204 # 5068, 5069, 5092, 5097), and in al-Mu‘jam-us-saghīr (1:65).Tabarānī related this tradition from Abū Hurayrah (رضی اللہ عنہ) and twelve Companions (RA),
• Imām Ahmad bin Hambal has related it from Abū Ayyūb al-Ansārī (رضی اللہ عنہ) and a larger number of Companions (RA).

Allah tells us further in Quran the following:

"O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper". (Surah Maidah : 35)


Now if anyone of you wants to argue that we should only ask Allah for help , then why did Prophet Suleiman Alayhissalam ask his servants to bring him the throne of Queen Bilqis ( Sheba).Why didnt he (pbuh) ask Allah directly for help? The incident is mentioned in Quran and you can read the full incident here:

Kiramat (Miracles) Of AULIAE KIRAM ( Sufis)

This above incident in Quran shows clearly that there are Friends of Allah who has powers beyond our imagination ,but we need to get assitance from them for help. If we dont go to them , then it our own fault. And its permissible ,the incident is just showing as that we are allowed to go to them for help.

Hafidhh ibn Taymiyya and Qadi Shawkani quote the following hadith:

‘Abd Allah bin Mas’ud, may Allah be pleased with Him, reported that our Prophet, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), stated: “If you ever find yourselves stranded alone in a desolate place or jungle, then say, ‘O servants of Allah! Help me, Allah have mercy on you.’”

[Al-Kalim al-Tayyib, page 69, by Hafidhh ibn Taymiyya, and Qadi Shawkani in Tufhat ad-Dhakireen, page 130. Ibn Sunni, Imam Bazaar, Hafidhh al Hasamim and Imam Nawawi all quote this hadith also in their various books.]