Islamic reaction to radical Muslims

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Since you didn't quote anything, and the question was poorly framed and failed to include context of this question, I am not sure what you are asking here. I assume you are jumping back several posts to my comment about altruism and will respond as such:

I was actually naming Islam and Christianity as a sort of 'shorthand' for the term 'Abrahamic religions' or 'Yawehstic religions' as many people are unfamiliar with those terms, or are uncomfortable with them. The comment about altruism includes all faiths that involve being judged and rewarded for the sum of your actions. This includes Judiasm, as well as some aboriginal faiths, etc.

It boils down to the fact that if your religion teaches that you will be rewarded or punished based on your actions, you simply *CANNOT* proform an altruistic act that follows your faith, as on some level you are gaining something for that act.

An atheist can help a poor person and be altruistic, but a religious (again, speaking of the 'reward' faiths only) person believes that they will be ultimately rewarded.



Once again, why would you think that science would not oppose that?

Before I answer that, I would like you to let us know why you are sexually attracted to dogs.

Personally, I am not attracted to a literal dog, nor would I find a physical or social relationship with an animal fulfilling, and thus have no desire to be intimate with a dog. Again, you will have to enlighten us as to why you do -- and the only thing preventing you from acting these things out is your faith in a god.

Putting aside my personal distaste for beastiality, I cannot imagine that the physical acts involved with that relationship would be pleasant for the dog, and even if nothing else, concern for the suffering of the animal would prevent that.

Furthermore, I believe that every legitimate relationship is two sided -- both parties have to be of sound mind and allowed to enter into the relationship with full knowledge. Much like a dog cannot enter into a legal countract, I don't feel that they can enter a 'dating' style relationship.

Let's not stop there, though. Personally, I think that dating an animal is morally and ethically on the same ground as an adult dating a young child. While 18 (16 in some places) is an arbitrary age (and may be too high, or too low, depending on the child), I would say that anytime an adult dates someone immature they are being amoral. Even a 14 or 15 year old being dated by a 17 or 18 year old is pushing it.

Let's continue -- any person of sound mind dating a 'special needs' person, is in the same boat -- again, asuming the special needs are severe.

same with Homosexuality? does science oppose Homosexuality?[/QUOTE]

Do you really understand what science is? This is a pretty absurd question, but I will play along.

Speeking purely from an evolutionary standpoint (which is not all of 'science') there is nothing any more wrong with a homosexual couple than a couple that willingly chooses not to have kids, or are medically prevented from having kids. Assuming all parties are relatively the same age, and of sound mind, what is the problem with it?

Speaking from a non-theistic standpoint -- which is what you *SHOULD* be asking, again, there is no problem, for the same reasons already given, as well as the simple fact that their private lives, if entered willingly and consentually, are not really any of my business. Why *should* it be opposed, other than the arbitrary rules of an unproven diety passed down?[/QUOTE]


Please cutt the story short

Do you approve what the jews are doing to the Palestianians and why are you so immune to criticising the Jewish faith, maybe you are a jew yourself because i can smell a jew from a mile away.

Do you feel its natural to be homosexual, if so, then what stops you from having a dog as a partner since you dont have faith in relgion and its family values, then you are portraying to others, that you can do anything you want, why should you worry about god, so thoughts are limitless.

[ozymandias]

Yes, "in the name of Islam." This does not reflect Islamic teachings.

What is it that you are trying to accomplish here, maybe I missed your point in this whole mumbo jumbo?



You do realize what you just said--what I have been claiming the whole time--you are biased. This is very hypocritical of you. You rather learn about Islam from those who are not Muslim and will say whatever it takes to discredit Islam.

I think this enough for me. You have lost all credibility.

Alright. See you later then. If you are going to ignore what I actually post and take things out of context and attack me for your misunderstandings, I don't care if you find me credible or not.

It seems that you have a preconceived notion about me, and no matter what I say, you try and twist it to that, so there is no point in trying to convince you any further.

[ozymandias]

Please cutt the story short

would if I could. I have no idea what you were trying to ask.

Do you approve what the jews are doing to the Palestianians and why are you so immune to criticising the Jewish faith, maybe you are a jew yourself because i can smell a jew from a mile away.

Horray! more random bigotry.

I am neither religiously nor ethnically Jewish.

If you are smelling phantom things, you might want to get your nose and brain looked at -- they are signs of tumors.

I'm a bit unclear why you think I am 'so immune to criticizing the Jewish faith' -- I have no idea what that even means, but if you want to criticize anyone of any faith, go right ahead, and feel free. That's the joy of free speech.

Do you feel its natural to be homosexual,

Yes. This has been proven.

if so, then what stops you from having a dog as a partner

Ok, what part of my last dozen replies to this question do you not understand?

I might have to stop ignoring you if you simply keep repeating this.

Additionally, what does homosexuality have to do with your obsession with bestiality?

since you dont have faith in relgion and its family values,

I have already stated that religion is not the only source of morals and values. If you continue to refuse to read my answers, I am going to refuse to provide them.

then you are portraying to others, that you can do anything you want, why should you worry about god, so thoughts are limitless.

For the last time, this is *NOT* what I have said, and I have repeatedly corrected you. Please try to keep up, and at least be polite enough to stop repeating the same questions and falsehoods over and over again. It is quite rude.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I am not taking you out of context.

Please don't act like the victim. The victim here is Islam and you are the aggressor. It is written all over your posts.

I do not have a preconceived notion of you, and I am not twisting things. In fact, you have a preconceived notion about Islam and you are the one who is twisting things and are picking and choosing whatever suits your arguments.

I offered to discuss any topic with you so that we could clear up misunderstandings; however, this is the response that I got:

A discussion in a forum with Muslim people is not a good place to learn about Islam.

Do you find this fair? You be the judge.

[ozymandias]

Ozymandias,

What is your main concern regardingMuslims.

At the moment I am just enjoying getting to know more of you -- and not just 'more' but also a more diverse selection than what I have already been exposed to. The Muslims I am friends with are all primarily American born, and middle to upper class, and have a fairly homogeneous outlook to life vastly different than most of the people here.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

would if I could. I have no idea what you were trying to ask.



Horray! more random bigotry.

I am neither religiously nor ethnically Jewish.

If you are smelling phantom things, you might want to get your nose and brain looked at -- they are signs of tumors.

I'm a bit unclear why you think I am 'so immune to criticizing the Jewish faith' -- I have no idea what that even means, but if you want to criticize anyone of any faith, go right ahead, and feel free. That's the joy of free speech.



Yes. This has been proven.



Ok, what part of my last dozen replies to this question do you not understand?

I might have to stop ignoring you if you simply keep repeating this.

Additionally, what does homosexuality have to do with your obsession with bestiality?



I have already stated that religion is not the only source of morals and values. If you continue to refuse to read my answers, I am going to refuse to provide them.



For the last time, this is *NOT* what I have said, and I have repeatedly corrected you. Please try to keep up, and at least be polite enough to stop repeating the same questions and falsehoods over and over again. It is quite rude.

I just find it very strange how you bash Islam in every comment of yours but i never see a single bad thing about Jews, can you highlight to us all here the bad points of the Jewish faith, can you provide us with links to back up your views.

Much appriciated.

Also...in regards to the beastiality and homosexuality, these things would be accepted under a society which is based on your views since you dont even beleieve in Relgion or an afterlife. We seen what the communists were like, what makes you different from them???

[ozymandias]

I am not taking you out of context.

You do so in this very post.

Please don't act like the victim. The victim here is Islam and you are the aggressor. It is written all over your posts.

Not at all. The victims are the innocent people being attacked for exercising universal human rights.

I do not have a preconceived notion of you, and I am not twisting things. In fact, you have a preconceived notion about Islam and you are the one who is twisting things and are picking and choosing whatever suits your arguments.

Your posts say otherwise.

I offered to discuss any topic with you so that we could clear up misunderstandings; however, this is the response that I got:





Do you find this fair? You be the judge.

No, I do *NOT* find it fair that you not only cherry pick a single sentence out of my post, remove the context and the comment of your's ("You might be thinking that you are learning truths, but you are just wasting your time. You are not looking in the right places.") but to add insult to injury, you turn my incredulous question into a statement.

You stated that this forum is not a good place to learn the 'truth' about Islam, even though this is a forum spanning the world, with Muslims from many walks of life, and many nations having a voice in a free and open discussion -- and you stated that this is not a good place to learn about Islam. I disagree -- this is a great place to learn about the 'real' Islam -- not just the 'book' Islam taught as a formal course, but actual factual exposure to real living Muslims and the beliefs they *ACTUALLY* have, as opposed to just learning about the most vocal factions.

Of course I am going to ask you about your statement -- but then you twisted my question into something the exact opposite, and then claim *I* am the one attacking.

Jeesh.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Ozymandais,


Do you feel the same about Judaism as well?

You noticed how he hardly speaks bad of Judaism, but bashes Islam and Christainity, I suspect he maybe Zionist Jew. I asked him three times now to give his view on Judaism but he seems very sensitive when it comes to it.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

ozy, who are you trying to kid?

Let us start from a blank sheet of paper, perhaps we have both misunderstood each other.

We are going to talk about this topic: The United Nations Charter of Human Rights.

Are you saying that Islam stands against everything that is in charter?

[Admin Khan]

Ozymandias and team,

I think it would be a bit more proper and uniformed if you guys can create a separate thread based on what you guys want to discuss. There are way too many topics being discussed here in this thread.

Gentlemen, You may choose a topic you wish to discuss or you may continue discussing the present one which is solely the Islamic reaction to radical Muslims.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Ai, Ai captain.

We needed that. Thank you.

[ozymandias]

I just find it very strange how you bash Islam in every comment of yours

Sorry you feel I am bashing your religion by simply looking at it in a fair and honest light.

but i never see a single bad thing about Jews,

I've said them -- in this thread, too.

can you highlight to us all here the bad points of the Jewish faith,

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish -- and I am going to politely decline. I do not 'bash' religions for the sake of 'bashing' them, and I do not see what benefit this would bring to the thread at this time -- in fact it is likely to derail this thread.

The only reason I discuss Islam and Christianity so much, is that one of those is the predominate religion of this forum (and the focus of this thread, I might add) and the other is the predominant faith of the planet -- and my country included. I tend to take short cuts and label a few and imply the rest, rather than listing out all the Abrahamic religions.

can you provide us with links to back up your views.

Can, and will -- when appropriate.

Much appriciated.

Also...in regards to the beastiality and homosexuality, these things would be accepted under a society which is based on your views

Again, please stop misrepresenting something like this? I am not sure how I can more clearly state that this is simply not true. Bestiality would not be allowed.

That said, 1) why are you acting like homosexuality is the same as bestiality? 2) Please show on logical grounds (and not religious) why your opinion of another person's sex life -- which does not involve you, I might add - matters to you. You do not have the rights to control the private actions of two consenting adults that causes no harm to anyone or anything other than themselves.

since you dont even beleieve in Relgion or an afterlife.

Again, what does this have to do with anything you are claiming?

Would you have sex with dogs -- if not for your religion stopping you? Why would you assume anyone else would?

And as for no afterlife, I clearly explained how this is likely to make a person treasure this life *more* rather than less.

If you ask this question again, or deliberately misrepresent what I have said one more time, I am going to force myself to take a break from conversing with you, as you are doing nothing more than trolling.

We seen what the communists were like, what makes you different from them???

Well, first of all, I am atheist, not communist. Atheism and Agnosticism are categories in theology, while communism is a political leaning. Technically speaking communists can be theists -- and in fact, I know some theists who are also communists quite well.

The major difference between the non-theistic moral system we are discussing, and communism -- other than the fact that one is a moral system and the other a political system, is that they discuss vastly different things, and do so in vastly different ways.

The closest political system to the non-theistic moral system I have been discussing would be libertarianism at one extreme, in which there are pretty much no rules other than 'don't infringe on other's rights' and democracy at the other end. I support something more in the middle, personally -- with the majority being allowed to dictate the rules, as long as those rules do not infringe on the rights of the minorities -- or anyone for that matter. Keep in mind, though that you are arbitrarily assigning a political system to a system that by it's very nature is apolitical. In fact, the moral system presented here would be compatible with *ANY* form of political organization, from monarchy, to anarchy, to theocracy, to democracy, and everything in between.

[ozymandias]

Ozymandais,


Do you feel the same about Judaism as well?

I'm not sure of the context -- but I hold all religions in the same regard.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Again with the excuses. Your excuse is that you dont want to discuss the Jewish faith on the grounds that Islam and Christianity are the prodominate faiths on this forum. There are no christians on this forum? Why dont you open up a new thread, and we will discuss judaism and the talmud.

[ozymandias]

You noticed how he hardly speaks bad of Judaism,

You notice how it has never come up? Yeah -- that's why I have not discussed it. To bring it up out of the blue just to start bashing is inappropriate and would not add to the conversation.

but bashes Islam and Christainity,

I speak mostly of these two groups for the reasons already stated. I might remind you that while Islam and Christianity comprise roughly 55% of the planet, Judaism is only 0.22%.

I suspect he maybe Zionist Jew.

Why not accuse me of being Hindu? They make up 14% of the world, and I have not said *ANYTHING* about the,. What about the indigenous religions of African and Americans? They are 6%. Traditional Chinese? 6% Buddhist? 6%.

I suspect you are just an ignorant bigot looking for an excuse to bad mouth an ethnic or religious group not needed in the conversation.

I asked him three times now to give his view on Judaism but he seems very sensitive when it comes to it.

There is a difference between being sensitive and being appropriate.