Can Law derived from Quran unify the Pashtoon

[Baygham]

What I fail to understand about you, Baygham, is that on the one side you are trying unite everyone and on the other hand you have hatred for all sects of Islam. To me is a clear contradiction. If it is a paradox, please elaborate.

What is it that you really want?

A society in pashtoon land, where the qadiani, the ahli-hadith and the atheist can sit together, drink a cup of tea, work on a construction project and then go home and prey to their own GODs.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Okay, I see what you want.

But have you considered the fact that you mock religion and the concept of God. Hence, the very foundation of your idea is already corrupted.

You need to first reconcile the hatred that stands in your heart and then worry about creating a unification tool to bring together the Pashtun.

The only thing that can bring mankind together is the source of their purpose, otherwise you will be wasting your time.

By the way, I would be willing to discuss this with you in-depth, for this is what I ponder upon on a daily basis. The only request I have is for you to keep your "smart" remarks to yourself and engage in a mature fashion. Otherwise, I don't see why you would want to discuss when you are poking fun at the foundation of my objective, which is God.

I am not saying that you do not have the right to dismiss God, not at all, but what I am saying is to dismiss Him in a polite and professional and academic manner.

[Baygham]

Okay, I see what you want.

But have you considered the fact that you mock religion and the concept of God. Hence, the very foundation of your idea is already corrupted.

You need to first reconcile the hatred that stands in your heart and then worry about creating a unification tool to bring together the Pashtun.

The only thing that can bring mankind together is the source of their purpose, otherwise you will be wasting your time.

By the way, I would be willing to discuss this with you in-depth, for this is what I ponder upon on a daily basis. The only request I have is for you to keep your "smart" remarks to yourself and engage in a mature fashion. Otherwise, I don't see why you would want to discuss when you are poking fun at the foundation of my objective, which is God.

I am not saying that you do not have the right to dismiss God, not at all, but what I am saying is to dismiss Him in a polite and professional and academic manner.

Dear Momin wrora, I still have no desire to listen to your argument. Stay happy, with your God and your prophet, keep them to yourself, I am Okay, just wish we could sit in a cafe and work on earthy projects rather than bicker about who's God has the bigger ****.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Beloved brother,

But that is what you are failing to realize: you cannot create peace when you are mocking God, the very foundation of the people you are dealing with. Do you see the flaw in your logic?

Believe you me, you will never come across a person more tolerant than me. However, if you mock God, I will not stand there and talk to you in a flowery tone. I will be harsh. But at the end of the day, I will not have any hatred for you. I would have said what needed to be said and that is it.

You on the other hand want to unite people by stripping the idea of God away from them. Fine, do as you please, but remember that the first thing you need to do is to acquaint yourself full-heartedly with the Quran.

You said that the Holy Quran has abrogated verses. When I presented a refutation of your stance, you went on to mock. How do you suppose you will unite people, when you resort to childish-like behaviour? Your very foundation is weak.

Here, I am going to start with you:

Lay out for me and the members of this forum how you suppose to unite the Pashtun. We will take it from here. If you are going to attack religion, do it in a professional manner.

Go ahead, the ball is in your court.

[Baygham]

Beloved brother,

But that is what you are failing to realize: you cannot create peace when you are mocking God, the very foundation of the people you are dealing with. Do you see the flaw in your logic?....................

why would I mock God if I can make a buck or two by using his name. I am sure it is infinitly cheaper to offer a piece of land in heaven than to deliver a sliver of reality on earth, and as a bussiness person, I will and do remember that. But here we have the luxury of letting mundane worries vanish. So the real self comes out. Allah the great and Quran the great will be my chant next time you come and have tea with me, while I poison your cup.

What can I do, become a bigot. Well how much is it going to cost, a lot (death for blasphemy here and no heaven and eternal hell in after life). Bigots do get paid more, both here as evident in our society and with chance of eternal hoors and ghilman, hmmmm ...................let me think about it.

No let me stay without hope. Strange position isnt it. Ever wonder why someone will choose it.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What on earth are you about? lol...

[Roshina]

My logic is quite simple and easy to understand. Quran can bring Pashtoon unity because it preaches unity.

Amna Guley, I believe what Baygham meant when he said that Muslims never agree on anything and there has never been a moment in the history of Muslims in which they all decided to unify under Islam is this:

You're a Muslim and arguing for the unity of Muslims as Muslims, followers of the Quran, and believe that all Muslims -- regardless of their sects -- can unite as one.

But then there's Sangar here, arguing AGAINST the unity of all Muslims regardless of their sects. To him, only those who are Muslims *in his opinion* are Muslims and the rest are "deviants" or just non-Muslims. He therefore does not support the unity of Ahmadis, Shiites, Sunnis, and extremist liberal as well as extremist conservative Muslims. Quoting him:

Why would we, as Muslims want to unite with Qadianis, Pervezi's and nihilist apostates?

Get what I mean now, guley?

[Roshina]

Oh, and also ...

We need to first DEFINE the words "unified"/unify and "unity"/united.

Clearly, some of us are under the false notion that in order to be united, we must be exactly the same.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Ladies and Gentlemen. When Sangar wrore decides some of us may live. (So Qadianis and Pervezi's can live.) and he will set our limits (But they will have certain limits and boundaries in their participation in the society) others that he does not like as much will be shunned (But deviants, disbelievers and secularists have no access to governance). Only he will govern, the rest of us morons will stay just that - Morons.

Sangar wrora, I applaud you for the clarity of your conviction. Its going to be a long struggle, the force behind your conviction is the desire to please God and through that desire you see your position. Hopefully you see yourself as in a major role in the new setup as your knowledge is definetly in the top 1% amongst the pashtoons in matters of Quran and Sharia.

So in short my friends, there is going to be no compromise with the Islamist. Its their laws or no laws. Sangar has clearly stated so. Other sects even muslim sects can and will be labelled as not mainstream and excluded from Power and the status that comes with it. In essence a second hand citizen, like the christen Churras in peshawar who used to sweep the streets. They wont vote, or participate in legislature that makes laws, a body of mullahs will check if things confirm to their interpretation or not.

How is it that for centuries the pashtoons have not been governed by a shurra of mullahs, if that is all we have known. Even I remember the village mullah was of no bigger status than the village chumiyar or batiyar. Now they will become our masters and tell me what to eat, who to fornicate with, what to drink, how to pee. Give me a break.

There are much better ways to advance ones social status. Do something that improves the lives of your fellow human biengs. God has his universe, he can take care of himself, does not need Sangar to protect his honour. Sangar is only advancing his social status, in hope of sitting in the exalted shurra and ruling us. Otherwise all that time that he has used up learning this stuff is going to be wasted. An earthy ambition, just like mine or any body elses. At least mine is not disguised and wrapped in lies attributed to Allah.

Don't need to dramatize everything.

People on this forum know my tribe and lineage. And where I am from. Need for me to improve my social status.

I've explained you basics of political Islam. If you don't like it, say so. No need to attack my social status.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Baygham all Muslims promote unity. However I understand what you mean we need tolerance. That's the word.

The irony is that he lacks tolerance himself. He keeps mocking Islam and Allah.

[Baygham]

Baygham all Muslims promote unity. However I understand what you mean we need tolerance. That's the word.

Tolerance is indeed the word.

By unity I meant living under the same roof, in a community, a society and in a country. Where we share common customs and laws and develop an identity.

Islamic teachings, history, Quran, Sharia as practiced and through out history has not been able to do such when more than one group of peaple are present. It has always been one faction that controls the corridors of power and imposes it on all the rest.

Is that a correct assumption on my part or do you guys disagree. If you do please forward your opinions. Sangar wrore has already elaborated his position eloquently and need not bother more. Lets hear from the rest of you.

[Baygham]

The irony is that he lacks tolerance himself. He keeps mocking Islam and Allah.

Even the concept that a tiny speck of nothing can mock the creator of the whole universe is absurd. Such a notion should be shirk if it isnt already. Relax your God is safe, he is not challanged by my poking at him, he is a big guy and can take care of himself.

[Baygham]

Don't need to dramatize everything.

People on this forum know my tribe and lineage. And where I am from. Need for me to improve my social status.

I've explained you basics of political Islam. If you don't like it, say so. No need to attack my social status.

why, dha drami ba sirap mullah kai, mungla ii chal na razi sa.

I am not attacking your social status, you want to run a shura of your buddies and strip us of our human rights. I dont care what logic you use to justify that, it is and never will be OK with me, unless you consider me an equal (in my own homeland) and we compete on equal terms, something I am willing to do. Stripping me of my rights to advance your cause is not going to work.

If not than we will do what needs to be done, and you do what you need to do. Destruction is not the private domain of the faithfull, mungla ii hum chal razi, will do what it takes to protect ourselves.

BTW how long you have been an ahli-hadith, your grandfather was not. If still alive would you make him a dhimmi too. Just curious.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Even the concept that a tiny speck of nothing can mock the creator of the whole universe is absurd. Such a notion should be shirk if it isnt already. Relax your God is safe, he is not challanged by my poking at him, he is a big guy and can take care of himself.

That is exactly what I am referring to: how on earth do you propose to bring peace and unification among the Pashtun when you yourself lack respect and decency?

[Baygham]

Originally Posted by Baygham
Even the concept that a tiny speck of nothing can mock the creator of the whole universe is absurd. Such a notion should be shirk if it isnt already. Relax your God is safe, he is not challanged by my poking at him, he is a big guy and can take care of himself.

That is exactly what I am referring to: how on earth do you propose to bring peace and unification among the Pashtun when you yourself lack respect and decency?

How is it the same statement.

Do you feel threatened from an electron or a proton. Would you spend your lifetime protecting your family against an electron. Well if the big guy is up there, that is going to be my relation to him. So why the worry. Relax he can take it.

Hey god sent this momin a bolt of lightening to let him know that you are OK. Dont sent him a crate of whiskey, he likes to wait for that when he will come up to see you. You can have the blond sent that to me instead, you know which one I am talking about. While we are chatting, any new versions of Quran in the pipeline. Saw Quran 2.2 on line, but dont think that was from you. BTW, take my advise and have the damn thing beta tested this time. I have had it, with all the bugs, contradictions and lack of uniform standards in its interpretation, who writes junk like that. Dont use the arabs to write the code again (I dont have to remind you what happened the first time, Umar had to burn all the mistakes) and please, please dont beta it on the afghans, even if they are qadianis. They are still reeling from the beta of their new prophet and the mullah omar episode, not one of your greatest moments. Big mistake, dont do that again. Beta test it preferably on some remote planet away from us, but if you have to test it in Earth conditions than I recommend ................. well you are God you figure it out.