Can Law derived from Quran unify the Pashtoon

[Baygham]

After our last failed attempt at Sharia in the form of Taliban, another bunch of arabic sponsored lunatics are lurking in the mist. This time pushing on the idea that Its the fluf in islam that has ruined our day to day life and if we went back to Just the Quran everything will be rosy again.

I strongly disagree. We pashtoons like other muslims have grown in environements where the heretic voice is severely silenced often in brutal fashion. Generations of such selective practice has silenced the heretic almost completely. In addition it has exalted dogmas to untouchable heights in our imagination. The Quran is one such exalted, die immediately if you question, categories that our suppressed and terrorized psyche has enacted over generations.

We have unrealistic almost in the extreme niave attitudes towards it. Even the very educated dare not speak out. For fear, which is now culturally innate, they maintain that it is not only the greatest book ever and is the source of all knowledge past but the go to place for all future knowledge as well.

Even with such prejudice in its favor and with centuries of intimidation on its wings, can anyone rationally for one moment state that The Quran can be used as a unifying entity and we the pashtoons will resolve all our ills if we revert back to it.

As stated below from another thread. In my opinion it can never be a unifying agent amongst a group of peaple. Forget the whole book, no two person's agree on a single translation of a single ayat or for that matter a single word. This lead to myraid interpretation and more diviciveness. An ample example is seen on this very forum. I chanllange anyone that they can forward one ayat that the whole muslim community agrees on in its interpretation and translation.

We have Koranist interpretation, Wahabi interpretation, sunni, shia, western scholars, native speakers of one dialect vs another, peaple burning whole quran versions (like Usman) if it does not fit their political agendas, peaple having hordes of mullahs on payrol to get a favorable interpretation (ISI in pakistan, the saudi government, the british raj amongst many more, even met an isreali recently who studied arabic and koran in school to keep in touch).

Peaple have found similar patterns of guidance from looking at stars (astrology), or lines on hand (palmistry), even bumps on a head can tell you everything (phrenology). In any complex system that can have a million different ways of looking at it,Look long enough and you will find anything that your brain wishes to see, usually for your benefit, and if you can convince someone else than thats more power and exploitation potential at your disposal.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The prophet muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasallam said that his ummah shall not gather upon falsehood. And he also said that his ummah shall divide into 73 sects.

Muslims do not necessarily have to be united with everyone who claims to be a Muslim. There is no unity between those who abide by Quran and Hadith and those who follow pirs baba's and imams.

And unity of Pashtuns is useless when they are united upon language or ethnicity.

People should unite upon haqq against baatil. Therefore, division between the people of quran & sunnah and the rest ( secularists, atheists, nationalists, shi'a, graveworshipers etc) is necessary.

Pashto is only a language and a cultural heritage. You live only a short period of time, and during your short lifespan you live in certain community and speak a certain language. Eventually you will die. And in the hereafter, your language and your culture will not give you paradise.

Uniting with heretics, traitors, slaves of the material world and supporters of crusaders divides one from the truth and unites one with falsehood.

THerefore, it is better to be disunited and remain on true teachings of Islam than be united with enemies of Islam.

[Zarawar]

I'm not up for the unity of Pashtuns if it's going to be based on racism or ethnocentrism.

[Baygham]

.......................... And he also said that his ummah shall divide into 73 sects.

Muslims do not necessarily have to be united with everyone who claims to be a Muslim. There is no unity between those who abide by Quran and Hadith and those who follow pirs baba's and imams.

And unity of Pashtuns is useless when they are united upon language or ethnicity.

People should unite upon haqq against baatil. Therefore, division between the people of quran & sunnah and the rest ( secularists, atheists, nationalists, shi'a, graveworshipers etc) is necessary. ..............................

Uniting with heretics, traitors, slaves of the material world and supporters of crusaders divides one from the truth and unites one with falsehood.

THerefore, it is better to be disunited and remain on true teachings of Islam than be united with enemies of Islam.

Sangar wrora,
In that case you would like to continue to push for implementation and imposition (a government) of laws that you think are based on Quran and sunnah and impose it on the rest of us grave worshippers, shias and heretics (90% of the population). What if we dont want your laws or agree with your interpretations. Will you have to kill us for Allah and Muhammad?

[Baygham]

I'm not up for the unity of Pashtuns if it's going to be based on racism or ethnocentrism.

We are not talking about unity, we are talking about co-existence. Can the so called 73 or 103 sects coexist in a peaceful manner.
Would you like them to co-exist or not. And if not how do you envision to accomplish that. By killing the other 99%, and if yes which 99% must be killed for Allah and Muhammad.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar wrora,
In that case you would like to continue to push for implementation of laws that you think are based on Quran and sunnah and impose it on the rest of us grave worshippers, shias and heretics (90% of the population). What if we dont want your laws or your interpretations. Will you have to kill us for Allah and Muhammad?

I dont like the smell of your question. It stinks. And I will explain to you why.

See, graveworshiping is because of ignorance. People do not know their religion. Therefore they are deviated and misguided. And the duty of a society is to revive the teachings of Islam and eradicate heresy. But eradicating heresy must be in accordance to quran and sunnah.

What kaafirs and hostile apostates tend to do, is to claim that people who denounce heresy want to blow up mosques of graveworshipers etc.

Which is false. The scholars of Jam'ah Ahlulhadith of India, Pakistan & Afghanistan have never encouraged people to go and kill heretics and deviants en mass. Movements who target people in such manner do so because they are equally misguided as the ones who worship graves.

Promotion of virtue and prevention of vice is a duty of any muslim. It is an aspect of worshiping allah. And all worship is in accordance to quran and sunnah. The prophet muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasallam did not go about and attack polytheists and massacre them. Neither do the scholars of ahlulhadith encourage us to go and kill people.

We are taught to spread teachings of Islam. We are taught to educate people and make them aware of their deviance and point out to evidence from quran and sunnah and explain why their deviant practices contradict true teachings of Islam.

Of course, when you have an Amir like Mullah Muhammad Omar, it is better to advice the Amir to use his political and legal power to ban heretics and deviants from practicing that which contradicts Islam.

But at the moment, we have to fight battles on different fronts. We have to fight off the crusaders, atheists and the nihilist servants who are oppressing our people. And at the same time we need to spread knowledge and awareness.

[شمله ور خراساني]

And you cannot prove to me that 90% of Afghanistan are deviants. That is absolutely not true. Graveworshiping and Shi'ism is widespread. But it is not anywhere near 90%.

[muhsina]

Sangar

This is again an example of your stereotypes rant full of contradictions like your own personna. Look and think through what you are saying. Without thinking [which you might consider bida'at] dont ink anything.

People should unite upon haqq against baatil. Therefore, division between the people of quran & sunnah and the rest ( secularists, atheists, nationalists, shi'a, graveworshipers etc) is necessary.

On one side you have admitted yourself that your so called haq will have 73 groups all claiming to be on haq and on the other side you say one has to be on haq. Which of the of the 73 sect's haq are you referring to?

The division between the people of Quran and Sunnah is much more in number than that between believers in Q & S and the rest of the rational humanity.

You live only a short period of time, and during your short lifespan you live in certain community and speak a certain language. Eventually you will die. And in the hereafter, your language and your culture will not give you paradise.

Eventually we will die but if man focus in technology we can get resurrected. We have already created artifical life and genetic resurrection is not far. The paradise which tempts your instints will be the higher and evolved form of world in which technology would have developed to facilitate life and just imagine if we do not contribute to the evolution of humanity to that level we will remain in the dust bins of our tombs due to our uselessness.

Uniting with heretics, traitors, slaves of the material world and supporters of crusaders divides one from the truth and unites one with falsehood.

The fact that you live and work with and in the country of heretics,secularists,nationalist means that the truth is not in your camp. I am sure you,as anyone else , will hate to live in the holy land of your prophet where even God has a house. [Baithullah] Does it not ring the bells. No wonder one needs to introspect to find out germs of Hypocricy and Inferiority Complex.

THerefore, it is better to be disunited and remain on true teachings of Islam than be united with enemies of Islam

True teachings of Islam are still to be found out from among the 73 groups all of whom claim to have found the arabic truth after not being able to find the petro dollars.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Don't attack me or my personality.

I have not mentioned the full text of the hadith. After the prophet saww said that his ummah shall divide into 73 sects, the one that is the safe sect is the one that is upon that which was the creed of the prophet muhammad saww and his companions.

All others are under threat of hell-fire.

And I did not read the rest of your post. Because you annoy me.

[Zarawar]

We are not talking about unity, we are talking about co-existence. Can the so called 73 or 103 sects coexist in a peaceful manner.
Would you like them to co-exist or not. And if not how do you envision to accomplish that. By killing the other 99%, and if yes which 99% must be killed for Allah and Muhammad.

Seriously, do you really think the 73 sects are all present in Afghanistan? The 73 sects implies to the entire Ummah of almost 2 billion people. What makes you think that a country of no more than 27 million people will host all those 73 sects?
That was in regards with your 99.9% estimate. We all know that majority of Afghanistan i.e. 90+ % follows the original form of Islam, with minor mis understanding in Fiqhi issues here and there.
Why don't you give me a list of the 73 sects and their believes. Then I'll tell you what I think, because I don't have sufficient knowledge in order for me to judge others. Since, you are so optimistic about the existence of all the 73 sects in Afghanistan, you might know them also.

[Zarawar]

For those that are lost between the 73 sects, May Allah Guide you. My belief and my faith is in the Islam that goes back 1400+ years. I believe in Islam, Quran and Hadith...
Examples of the 73 sects:
Shia, Ahmadi, Ismaili, Parvisi and the list goes on.
I think i'm smart enough to differenciate between Haq (Islam) and Batil (Ahmadi/Ismaeili) etc. Unless one sees Ismaeili/Ahmadi or any other sect like that as HAQ....HAQ is always going to shine and HAQparasts won't miss HAQ.

[شمله ور خراساني]

The existence of ziyarat does not mean that all afghans are graveworshipers. In fact in most communities people do not really worship those graves. There are of course extreme cases of total idiots who endulge in such activities. But even the Sufis in most parts of Pashtunkhwa are very orthodox.

[Baygham]

And you cannot prove to me that 90% of Afghanistan are deviants. That is absolutely not true. Graveworshiping and Shi'ism is widespread. But it is not anywhere near 90%.

Well 90% for sure are not following Ahli-hadith sect. That I can prove and am absolutely sure of. But even if there is one afghan who in your eyes is deviant, answer my question. How will you deal with him. Make him obey your laws and if he or she says no, what will you do. Accuse them of heresey and kill or What? Dont run away, answer.

My father is a grave worshipper, are you going to kill him. (Many ahli-sunnat or brelvi's can be categorized as grave worshippers). He considers the ahli-hadith as heretics. I have shia friends what do you plan for them.

[Baygham]

For those that are lost between the 73 sects, May Allah Guide you. My belief and my faith is in the Islam that goes back 1400+ years. I believe in Islam, Quran and Hadith...
Examples of the 73 sects:
Shia, Ahmadi, Ismaili, Parvisi and the list goes on.
I think i'm smart enough to differenciate between Haq (Islam) and Batil (Ahmadi/Ismaeili) etc. Unless one sees Ismaeili/Ahmadi or any other sect like that as HAQ....HAQ is always going to shine and HAQparasts won't miss HAQ.

So what do you plan to do with those that you dont consider to be on haq, you named Shia, ahmadi, ismaili, pervaizi, ahlisunnat, ahli hadith, wahabi, grave worshippers, pashtoon heretics, you must belong to one and the others are not on Haq, so what do you plan to do with them. Are you going to let them live, and if yes, under what laws, yours or theirs. And by the way what is your sect?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Well 90% for sure are not following Ahli-hadith sect. That I can prove and am absolutely sure of. But even if there is one afghan who in your eyes is deviant, answer my question. How will you deal with him. Make him obey your laws and if he or she says no, what will you do. Accuse them of heresey and kill or What? Dont run away, answer.

My father is a grave worshipper, are you going to kill him. (Many ahli-sunnat or brelvi's can be categorized as grave worshippers). He considers the ahli-hadith as heretics. I have shia friends what do you plan for them.

I've answered you thoroughly. Now you are just being silly.