On Islam and rationality

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Okay explain to me how we can rationally arrive to that conclusion

well one example is to look at consciousness as a function. Why can we do this? Well a function is a mapping between a domain set to a codomain set, A consciousness maps information sets to information sets it's is a function that that maps information of one set (preimage) to other sets of infornation (image). There's an isomorphism if the functions are bijective, a homomorphism if it isn't. (these are just technicalities that don't matter to the over all argument). If we take function composition as the operation between mappings, then we have a category (collection of mappings) and in this categories, we can show inductively that the category of these categories is the mapping of all possible preimages to all possible images, and thus a metaconsciousness (meaning the consciousness that map;s everything)), If this metaconsciousness possesses all morphisms, then this category of categories is automorphic( maps to itself). This would be God.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Are you saying it's necessary to a priori accept God before we even begin the argument? If so explain why.

That's exactly what I didn't say, I am saying that, "faith" doesn't necessarily nullify a rational basis for belief in God.

[Baserka]

پښتو هم نه درزی
ما درنه پښتنه وکړه چی تا کله قران پاک لوستلی دی نو تا خبره بلی خوا
ته ویوړله.
نو ته چی په جحالت کښی خوشحاله یی نو منږ څه ویلی شو.

پوښتنه
جهالت
مونږ

پښتو زده کول کیږې، انسان یا حیوان ندی چه پښو درشې. 🙈

[Akbar]

پوښتنه
جهالت
مونږ

پښتو زده کول کیږې، انسان یا حیوان ندی چه پښو درشې. 🙈

مننه

پښو نه

پښتو

[Baserka]

Feet are pkho.

[Akbar]

feet are pkho.

غلی کښینه
سپیمو ته مه را دانګه

[Baserka]

سپيږمو

[Firdousi]

[QUOTE=Porus;808518]Minorities have different experiences than the majority do. I think being a majority itself grants you privilege. If I'm a Sunni Punjabi Muslim in Pakistan, I clearly have more privilege than a Sindhi Hindu in most circumstances. Of course there's exceptions, you'll find that in every case. But communities in certain countries are disadvantaged for a variety of reasons and I don't think attempts to stand in solidarity with marginalised groups is 'weak'. All it is is recognising your privilege. I don't think 'gay is good and straight is not' either. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it.

Once again, FOR GOD SAKE, read my freaking comments properly, bro. I said this:



There you go. That's just proving what I said. You're saying social liberalism creates weak people and therefore creates a culture where gay people, loose women and minorities with 'privileges' run a muck. 'How do you expect me to support that'.

I can't say much to that either. If you don't like that kind of thing well... maybe the West just isn't for you

Man you seem to be an extremely biased person. Minorities must have rights but their culture and interests shouldn't be above the interests of the majority. Easy peasy.

I admire the West. I believe they should become a bit more conservative if they want to survive in a growing hostile world. Just because I disagree with social liberalism it doesn't mean I am against the West. What a flawed and absurd logic dude lmao

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I am glad this thread turned in to a fruitful debate. I'll respond later when I have more time.

[Damir9000]

can you see your own brain?
how do you know it exists?

How do you know Vishnu doesn't exist?

[Damir9000]

I'm sorry but this statement itself isn't rational, because there's an epistemological limit of what you can prove, because there's always a something we must accept on first principle to demonstrate anything factually.

I'm not saying that we accept God as "first principle" on the grounds of special pleading. However, there are many rational ways to arrive at a God conclusion, belief and custom are not the only ways. So this statement is patently false, and thus not rational.

It isn't that hard realizing the Gods of religions (including Islam) are man made.

It is a waste of time arguing if there is God or not.

But religions are clearly not from God but Man.

[Baserka]

It isn't that hard realizing the Gods of religions (including Islam) are man made.

It is a waste of time arguing if there is God or not.

But religions are clearly not from God but Man.

But Vishnu is real?

[Porus]

I haven't forsaken your rebuttal [MENTION=19435]Iblis_Efreetzai[/MENTION]

I'm busy till the 2nd of May with University assignments, until then... adios

[Firdousi]

It isn't that hard realizing the Gods of religions (including Islam) are man made.

It is a waste of time arguing if there is God or not.

But religions are clearly not from God but Man.

Religion is not only about believing in God. its a complex code of morality, values and deep and complicated way to construct societies. Its basically one of the best tools for social cohesion and its something that I seriously like when I see how its something that bring many people together. Every time I attend a mehmooni or other social events, despite being agnostic, it makes me happy to realize that I have something so deep in common with my fellow countrymen.

You Western atheists (yes I consider you a White wannabe basically because you copy-paste their baseless "arguments") are so stupid that you seriously believe that comparing God with superman is a valid comparison which basically proves how simplistic and naive you guys are no matter how rational and smart you believe you are.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

It isn't that hard realizing the Gods of religions (including Islam) are man made.

It is a waste of time arguing if there is God or not.

But religions are clearly not from God but Man.

You're affirming your premise. this isn't a rational construct.