Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

There is nothing wrong with that. That happens when a prophet has many roles to fulfill.

This type proclamation is due to the fact that Islam is a complete religion. Also, it follows in the foots steps of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). He (saw) did not claim to be a universal prophet at the beginning--he did it near the end. Now, one could say that he was being cautious so as to not shoot himself in the foot. But the rebuttal to that would be that the Quran was not revealed all at once--it was in piecemeal.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Saif ul Haq is probably busy.

I had a question for Muslims of Ahmadi sects.

Ahmedis are not a Muslim sect.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Not that I am aware of. If you could kindly give me a reference to the original Urdu it would really help.

As per my own research, he had fully submitted himself to Allah. The only place he could be found was the mosque.

Once a guest came over to their home and asked his father about his children. He told his father: you said you have two sons. I see one of the them all the time, where is the other one? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's father replied: go check the mosque, he is probably wrapped in the prayers sheets when they put them away after namaz.

[Roshina]

Since I'm not one to believe anything people tell me about "the other," I like to discover it for myself, meet the people themselves, go to their place of worship, talk to them, converse with them, and read up about them (both from their own sources as well as the sources by their opponents/enemies), and make up my own mind about them instead of letting others make up my mind for me or tell me what to believe about other people.

And so, today, I went to an Ahmadiyyah mosque to meet some Ahmadi Muslims here near where I live. It was more for a study on Muslims than for me to meet some Ahmadi Muslims, but what better way to meet Muslims with different views than this? (Last Friday, I went to visit the Moorish Temple, and next week, either Friday or earlier, it's gonna be some Shiite mosque nearby.)

Now, these Ahmadi Muslims ... I must say their hospitality was superb! I have been to several mosques in this area, and this was one of the very few with very welcoming worshipers. They -- even the youth!! -- asked me questions about me and told me about themselves, and we all got along very well.

I've stopped going to khutbas because they're NEVER relevant to today's situations of Muslims, or relevant in ANY other way, but the Ahmadi Muslim Imam gave a khutba that was perhaps the most relevant one I've ever heard: He addressed the issues of Muslims from different parts of the world, proposed solutions, and reminded the listeners of their Islamic obligations -- which include respecting others in spite of (rather, because of) their differences while highlighting the similarities. He talked about the Muslims in America, the U.S. Constitution, and the relationship of the latter with Islam's stance on freedom of religion.

And so on. Bottom line: It was very refreshing to attend a mosque where Muslims actually CARE about humanity! As I said, I've been to many mosques around this city and even far from it (it's mostly for me to write about them and, again, it's for a study, but it's personally uplifting as well).

Not only that, I was recently talking to a professor about how when a minority group is persecuted in a community, you'd expect that when they're a majority somewhere, or meet other minorities, they'd respect them, tolerate them, and even help them when needed. But, unfortunately, in Iran, where the majority Muslims are Shiites (and Shiites being a minority among Muslims worldwide), the Shiite Muslims severely persecute, harass, and massacre the Baha'is! I honestly don't understand why they'd do that when they KNOW what it's like to be rejected and killed :S Please, for God's sake, WHEN are we gonna learn from history?!

But the Ahmadi Muslims are the first group I've met (I'm sure there are many others as well, but this is the first I've met) that supports other minorities and respects them and -- in spite of being tortured by those who claim to be Muslims and who claim that Islam is the religion of peace and that there's no compulsion in religion -- STILL stand with pride in their faith and beliefs! I find it incredibly powerful and inspiring. Words mean absolutely nothing when they're not put into action. So when we constantly say that "Islam is peace!" "Islam means peace!" WHILE killing not only non-Muslims but even our own Muslims and declaring others "kuffar" just because their beliefs are not mainstream (they are bold enough to NOT submit to the beliefs and views of the majority), our words carry no meaning. It's hypocrisy as well.

My point? Stop telling lies about a people you think are below you in faith, and first look inside your own musty souls and correct your own problems before destroying the lives of those who might even have a stronger faith than you do, who might be even more pious than you claim to be, and who might be closer to the God in whose name you kill those innocents!

Peace.

[Roshina]

Oh, by the way, I met a Pashtun family there that was also Ahmadi! One of the girls there had a Pashtun name and I asked her if she knew what it meant, and she told me and its meaning, and I asked her if she knew where it originated from, and she said no. So I told her with a huge smile And then said, "I'm Pashtun, you see!" And she was like, "Ohh! You're Pashto? Those sisters over there are Pashto, too! You should talk to them!" I was like, SURE And so I met them, and they turned out to be Peshawaris. It was such a good feeling talking in Pashto there

[malalay]

And what do u think about this Momin Brother?

The Qur'anic Account of Jesus' Ascent to God's Presence

Examining the words used in the narratives relating how the Prophets died and the verses dealing with Jesus' ascent to God's presence reveals an important fact: Jesus did not die like the other prophets did, nor was he murdered by the unbelievers. Rather, our Lord took him up to His presence. In this chapter, we will examine the Arabic words used to express how the Prophets died and how Jesus was raised up to God's presence, and investigate how the Qur'an uses them.

As we will see in greater detail later on, the Qur'an uses qataloohu (to kill), maata (to die), halaka (to perish), salaboohu (they crucified him), or some other special expressions to describe the death or murder of the Prophets. In the case of Jesus, the Qur'an clearly states that he was not killed in any of those ways, for: "They did not kill him [wa ma qataloohu] and did not crucify him [wa ma salaboohu]." God reveals that people were shown a look-alike and that Jesus was raised up to His presence, as follows:

When God said: "Jesus, I will take you back [mutawaffeeka] and raise you up [wa raafi'uka] to Me and purify you of those who are unbelievers. And I will place the people who follow you above those who are unbelievers until the Day of Rising..." (Surah Al 'Imran, 3: 55)

The following are the ways in which the words referring to death in the Qur'an and the word tawaffa in Surah Al 'Imran are used:

(1)
Tawaffa: To Cause To Die, To Take in One's Sleep,
or To Take Back

The word tawaffa used in Surah Al 'Imran 3 and translated as "taking back" here and "causing to die" in some Qur'an translations, has various connotations. Examining the Arabic verses clearly reveals that these connotations of the word should be considered while applying it to Jesus' situation. The Qur'an describes his being taken back to God in the words that Jesus will say on the Day of Judgment:

[Jesus said], "I said to them nothing but what You ordered me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness against them as long as I remained among them, but when You took me back to You [tawaffa], You were the One watching over them. You are the Witness of all things." (Surat al-Ma'ida, 5:117)

In Arabic the word that is translated in some translations of this verse as "You have caused me to die" is tawaffa and comes from the root wafa - to fulfil. Tawaffa does not actually mean "death" but the act of "taking the self back" either in sleep, in death or as in the case of Jesus being taken back into the presence of God. From the Qur'an again, we understand that "taking the self back" does not necessarily mean death. For instance, it can mean "taking back the self while one is asleep," as indicated in the following verse:

It is He Who takes you back to Himself [yatawaffaakum] at night, while knowing the things you perpetrate by day, and then wakes you up again, so that a specified term may be fulfilled. (Surat al-An'am, 6:60)

The word used for "take back" in this verse is the same as the one used in Surah Al 'Imran 55. In other words, in the verse above, the word tawaffa is used and it is obvious that one does not die in one's sleep. Therefore, what is meant here is, again, "taking the self back." In the following verse, the same word is used like this:

God takes back people's selves [yatawaffaa] when their death [mawtihaa] arrives and those who have not yet died, while they are asleep [lam tamut]. He keeps hold of those whose death [mawt] has been decreed and sends the others back for a specified term. (Surat Az-Zumar, 39:42)

As this verse clarifies, God takes back the self of the one who is asleep, yet He sends back the selves of those whose deaths have yet not been decreed. In this context, in one's sleep one does not die, in the sense in which we perceive death. Only for a temporary period, the self leaves the body and remains in another dimension. When we wake up, the self returns to the body.1

Imam al-Qurtubi makes clear that there are three meanings to the term wafat which is from the same root as tawaffa:the wafat of death, the wafat of sleep, and last, the wafat of being raised up to God, as in the case of Jesus.

(2)
Qatala: To Kill

The Qur'an uses qatala to mean "to kill," as in the following verse:

Pharaoh said: "Let me kill [aqtulu] Moses and let him call upon his Lord! I am afraid that he may change your religion and bring about corruption in the land." (Surah Ghafir, 40:26)

In Arabic, "let me kill Moses" is aqtulu Musa, a phrase that is derived from the verb qatala. In another verse, the same word is used in the following way:

... [That was because they] killed [yaqtuloona] the Prophets without any right to do so. (Surat al-Baqara, 2:61)

The expression yaqtuloona (they killed) is also derived from qatala. The translation is clearly "to kill."

The verses below speak of the deaths of the Prophets, and the usage of the verb qatala is marked. All words in brackets are derivatives of this verb.

We will write down what they said and their killing [wa qatlahum] of the Prophets without any right to do so. (Surah Al 'Imran, 3:181)

Say: "Why, then, if you are believers, did you previously kill [taqtuloona] the Prophets of God?" (Surat al-Baqara, 2:91)

As for those who reject God's Signs, and kill [yaqtuloona] the Prophets without any right to do so, and kill [yaqtuloona] those who command justice... (Surah Al 'Imran, 3:21)

"Kill [uqtuloo] Joseph or expel him to some land." (Surah Yusuf, 12:9)

..."Moses, the Council is conspiring to kill you [li yaqtulooka]." (Surat al-Qasas, 28:20)

The only answer of his [Abraham's] people was to say: "Kill [uqtuloohu] him or burn him!" (Surat al-'Ankabut, 29:24)

(3)
Halaka: To Perish

Another word used to denote the act of killing is halaka. It also is used to mean "to perish, to be destroyed, or to die," as in the verse given below:

... when he [Joseph] died [halaka], you said: "God will never send another Messenger after him."(Surah Ghafir, 40:34)

The phrase idha halaka is translated as "when he died." meaning "to die."

(4)
Mawt: Death

Another word used to relate a Prophet's death is mawt, a noun derived from the verb maata (to die), as follows:

Then when We decreed that he [Prophet Solomon] should die [mawt], nothing divulged his death [mawtihi] to them except the worm that ate his staff. (Surah Saba', 34:14)

In the following verse, another form of the verb is used:

Peace be upon him [Prophet John] the day he was born, the day he dies [yamootu], and the day he is raised up again alive. (Surah Maryam, 19:15)

The word yamootu is translated here as "they day he dies," and the same word is used (in the form of a noun) to relate Jacob's death:

Or were you present when death [mawt] came to Jacob? (Surat al-Baqara, 2:133)

In another verse, the verbs qatala (in the passive form qutila) and maata are used together:

Mohammed is only a Messenger, and he has been preceded by other Messengers. If he were to die [maata] or be killed [qutila], would you turn on your heels? (Surah Al 'Imran, 3:144)

Other forms of the verb are used in other verses to denote the death of Prophets:

She exclaimed: "Oh if only I had died [mittu] before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!" (Surah Maryam, 19:23)

We did not give any human being before you immortality [khuld]. And if you die [mitta], will they then be immortal? (Surat al-Anbiya', 21: 34)

"He Who will cause my death [yumeetunee], then give me life." (Surat ash-Shu'ara', 26: 81)

(5)
Khalid: Immortal

The word khalid means immortality, permanence, and continued existence, as in the following verse:

We did not give them bodies that did not eat food, nor were they immortal [khalideena]. (Surat al-Anbiya', 21:8)

(6)
Salaba: To Crucify

Another word used in the Qur'an to relate death is salaba (to crucify). This verb has various meanings (e.g., to hang, to crucify, to execute) and is used in the following ways:

They did not kill him and they did not crucify him [wa maa salaboohu]. (Surat An-Nisa', 4:157)

[Joseph said:] "One of you will serve his lord with wine, the other of you will be crucified [yuslabu]." (Surah Yusuf, 12:41)

They should be killed or crucified [yusallaboo]. (Surat al-Ma'ida, 5:33)

[Pharaoh said:] "I will cut off your alternate hands and feet, and then I will crucify [la usallibannakum] every one of you." (Surat al-A'raf, 7:124)

As the verses show, the words used to express Jesus' situation are altogether different to those used to describe the deaths of the other Prophets. God states that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified, that a look-alike was killed in his place, and that he was taken back (in other words that his soul was taken) and raised up to His presence. When talking of Jesus', the Qur'an uses tawaffa (to take the soul) whereas when talking of the other Prophets, it uses qataloohu or maata (and its derivatives) to mean "death" in the conventional sense. This information shows us yet again that Jesus' situation was extraordinary.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Malalay Khore Jana, I will write you a detailed answer. Insha Allaah!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

MOMIN Wasn't the Mirza working for MI5 or MI6 Britain

Not even for a moment!

He just said that if a government is giving you all of your rights, especially religious freedom, then there is no need to fight such a just government.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

My point? Stop telling lies about a people you think are below you in faith, and first look inside your own musty souls and correct your own problems before destroying the lives of those who might even have a stronger faith than you do, who might be even more pious than you claim to be, and who might be closer to the God in whose name you kill those innocents!

Peace.

Nice post!

I could not have said it better myself.

I always claim that in the end the it is Allah who decides who goes to Heaven and who does not. Our duty is to only preach, the rest is Allah's work. That is why Allah has declared categorically that the changing of hearts rest in His Hands.

A religion that can have tolerance for other faiths, despite claiming to be correct, is the goodness of that faith. I love the fact that Islam does not give authority to anyone to declare another human being hell-bound. Unfortunately, the only faith, Islam, on earth to have this instilled in its Holy Book, has been hijacked by its own narrow minded followers, who, in the name of Islam and its Holy Founder (saw), have done all sorts of atrocities against humanity.

These people have taken the liberty to cause all sorts of havoc in the name of Islam and its beloved founder Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

Ahmadiyyat gives me hope, because the standards of the community is very high. They follow in the footstep of that Prince of Peace (saw).

Ahmadis have time and time again have demonstrated what it means to be a follower of Allah. Their history is marred with them being on the receiving end of the persecution, yet they have yet to retaliate. They only retaliate with prayers.

In the recent Lahore massacres, they showed utmost patience and faith in that the help of Allah would come to their aid. If it was any other religious group, forget about non-religious groups, they would have gone to the streets and cause social upheaval. Check this clip out, it is in Urdu with subtitles:

YouTube - Response of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community on Attacks - Banned Video? Pakistan

May Allah help and protect those who preserve the dignity of Allah, the Quran and our beloved Imam Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Oh, by the way, I met a Pashtun family there that was also Ahmadi! One of the girls there had a Pashtun name and I asked her if she knew what it meant, and she told me and its meaning, and I asked her if she knew where it originated from, and she said no. So I told her with a huge smile And then said, "I'm Pashtun, you see!" And she was like, "Ohh! You're Pashto? Those sisters over there are Pashto, too! You should talk to them!" I was like, SURE And so I met them, and they turned out to be Peshawaris. It was such a good feeling talking in Pashto there

Pashtun Ahmadis are the so full of dedication and determination.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

By the way, that new conference was not shown on Pakistani national television. So sad...

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What do you mean sister?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

No, they pray five times a day. They combine prayers wherever the Shariah allows for it.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

This is a somewhat good answer:

Questions on Islam | Is it permissible to intend to combine prayers if there is a possibility of missing a prayer? and In what situations can one imitate other madhhabs (sects) and combine prayers?

[spogmai shaglay]

Momin... i went through alll the videos posted by you.... all talk about the same thing.. more than Dajjal it talks about Dajjal's donkey......and this man who speaks her is of the view that everything mentioned in the Quran doesn't have a literal meaning but has metaphorical sense.....

i need to read more on this and then i will post more... will also post something i have read regarding this topic....will take time to translate it in English....