Anti-Ahmadiyyah Thread

[Roshina]

1. Prophet Muhammad (saw) is Khatamun Nabiyyeen, but he (saw) is not the last prophet.

MWMN, are you familiar with the Moorish Science Temple of America? They believe that Noble Drew Ali was also one of God's prophets (he lived in the early 20th century). It mostly appeals to African American Muslims in the U.S., although they prefer to be called "Moorish" instead of "African American." Since for centuries, the Africans brought to America were brutally bereft of their identities, cultures, religions, and even beings, they truly saw Noble Drew Ali as their prophet when he appeared and gave them hope, reminding them of their worth as humans, as Africans, as Muslims, and he's now held in much esteem by them.

Some of their practices and beliefs don't coincide with mainstream Islam, so they're deemed "kuffar" by most mainstream Muslims (of course they are! Like you once said, which Muslim sect hasn't been accused of kufr yet!)

Anyway, so this argument that Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger, NOT necessarily the last prophet is shared by both Ahmadi Muslims as well as the Moorish ones I mentioned above. The latter one falls more under Islamic Sufism in many of its practices, too, but overall, they acknowledge and agree with some mainstream Muslim beliefs (the finality of the Prophet as a messenger, for instance, or prayers (though they pray 3 times a day) while recognizing but not accepting others (e.g., the finality of Prophet Muhammad as a prophet, or having to pray 5 times a day).

Since they have one of their major and most important beliefs in common with the Islamic sect commonly referred to as Ahmadiyya, the two get along very well with each other and are very supportive of each other as well.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

"Seal" means a signet ring, or a rubber stamp. It means that the authority on prophethood, until the Day of Judgment, will be based on the standard and the authority of the prophethood of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw), because his Law is the last Law.

Otherwise, it would contradict other verses of the Quran which indicate that prophets would always be raised by Allah.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

[/LIST]
MWMN, are you familiar with the Moorish Science Temple of America? They believe that Noble Drew Ali was also one of God's prophets (he lived in the early 20th century). It mostly appeals to African American Muslims in the U.S., although they prefer to be called "Moorish" instead of "African American." Since for centuries, the Africans brought to America were brutally bereft of their identities, cultures, religions, and even beings, they truly saw Noble Drew Ali as their prophet when he appeared and gave them hope, reminding them of their worth as humans, as Africans, as Muslims, and he's now held in much esteem by them.

Some of their practices and beliefs don't coincide with mainstream Islam, so they're deemed "kuffar" by most mainstream Muslims (of course they are! Like you once said, which Muslim sect hasn't been accused of kufr yet!)

Anyway, so this argument that Prophet Muhammad was the last messenger, NOT necessarily the last prophet is shared by both Ahmadi Muslims as well as the Moorish ones I mentioned above. The latter one falls more under Islamic Sufism in many of its practices, too, but overall, they acknowledge and agree with some mainstream Muslim beliefs (the finality of the Prophet as a messenger, for instance, or prayers (though they pray 3 times a day) while recognizing but not accepting others (e.g., the finality of Prophet Muhammad as a prophet, or having to pray 5 times a day).

Since they have one of their major and most important beliefs in common with the Islamic sect commonly referred to as Ahmadiyya, the two get along very well with each other and are very supportive of each other as well.

I beg to differ, dear sister. Ahmadis are respectful of Atheist and anyone else. However, they will not join hands with someone just because they share the same beliefs. They defend Islam and its worth with all their will.

Bahais also hold the same belief, and Ahmadis are very critical of them because of their views on the coming of a new religion.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

That confused me. If there is a seal how can we expect anymore? What is the role and purpose of Mirza?

Thank you brother.

If we do it this way you might understand it: What is the purpose for Hadhrat Isa (as) to come back?

[Roshina]

I beg to differ, dear sister. Ahmadis are respectful of Atheist and anyone else. However, they will not join hands with someone just because they share the same beliefs. They defend Islam and its worth with all their will.

Bahais also hold the same belief, and Ahmadis are very critical of them because of their views on the coming of a new religion.

You misunderstood.

My point wasn't that "they like each other since they're similar," but it was that since both of them often suffer from the same kind of treatment from mainstream Muslims, they understand each other and join hands with each other to be each other's support systems. It's like, "You're disrespected and shunned because you believe XYZ? Me, toooo! Isn't it so wrong and unfair?!" And so it all makes sense why they are supportive of each other.

In Muslim countries where Sunnis are the majority, they're mostly enemies; but when they go somewhere where they BOTH are a minority (like in a western country), they realize that the things they have in common are more important and should have more value, and so they have more chances of uniting and standing with and for each other.

It's common among humans to feel naturally closer to people they share more with -- be it pain or a harsh treatment from others.

Regarding how tolerant Ahmadis are -- yes, I'm aware of their kindness towards differences; there's a huge Ahmadi community in the city where I live, and I've held interviews and group discussions with them, so I'm well familiar with their respecting nature.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

One thing about Ahmadis:

They will never hesitate to even help their enemies.

Though you are right that the weak stick together, however, Ahmadis stand up to the bullies and help the weak, despite being persecuted themselves.

Just listen to their Khalifah's Friday Sermons. So powerful.

[Roshina]

^ Well, every group of people has people like that, and every group has people who are intolerant and unjust. No sect, no religion, no culture inherently teaches rude behavior, injustice, or intolerance, but it's the people who (claiming to represent everyone else, or represent their belief system) are like that.

The Ahmadis that I have spoken to are very tolerant and respectful, but there are many non-Ahmadis I've also spoken to who are just as respectful and tolerant. I don't attribute it necessarily to their faith/religion/sect, etc.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I know what you are saying, however, to have a stamp of "kafir" on the authority of the whole ummah on your forehead and still be tolerant and helpful and loving is something that deserves to be in a league of its own.

[Badlun]

The differences are:

1. Prophet Muhammad (saw) is Khatamun Nabiyyeen, but he (saw) is not the last prophet.
2. Hadhrat Isa (as) is not alive, he is passed away.
3. The Messiah and the Mahdi will be one person, and this person will be raise from within the ummah. They believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has fulfilled both titles.

Everything else is the same, with of course a new insight into the whole of the Quran.

1. If prophet Muhammad is not the last prophet then who is the last prophet or there will be never a last prophet and prophets will shower till the day of Judgement? Was Mirza Ghulam was the last prophet? was he a prophet or only Messiah or Mehdi
2.If hazrat isa is not alive then how only Mirza Ghulam comes as Messiah why not any body else? Why not you Momin why Not I ?
3.The belief is that after Mehdi and Messiah, the day of judgement will come after 40 days and the whole world will become Muslim but we dont see these signs after Mirza Ghulam?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

1. If prophet Muhammad is not the last prophet then who is the last prophet or there will be never a last prophet and prophets will shower till the day of Judgement? Was Mirza Ghulam was the last prophet? was he a prophet or only Messiah or Mehdi
2.If hazrat isa is not alive then how only Mirza Ghulam comes as Messiah why not any body else? Why not you Momin why Not I ?
3.The belief is that after Mehdi and Messiah, the day of judgement will come after 40 days and the whole world will become Muslim but we dont see these signs after Mirza Ghulam?

1. Prophethood will continue until the Day of Judgment.
2. Ask that question from Allah. Why was Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) and no one else was Khatamun Nabiyyeen?
3. If the whole world did not become Muslim during the lifetime of the Prophet (saw) then it will never happen for anyone else. You would have to look at that hadith with a different lens. Plus, according to the Quran, there will always be followers of other religions until the Day of Judgment.

[Badlun]

1. Prophethood will continue until the Day of Judgment.
2. Ask that question from Allah. Why was Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) and no one else was Khatamun Nabiyyeen?
3. If the whole world did not become Muslim during the lifetime of the Prophet (saw) then it will never happen for anyone else. You would have to look at that hadith with a different lens. Plus, according to the Quran, there will always be followers of other religions until the Day of Judgment.

Can you please mention some other prophets too as 1400 years passed after Hazrat Muhammad then we should have lots of prophets.
2. You did not tell me whether Mirza Ghulam was a prophet or not or only Messiah or Mehdi?
3. Prophet Muhammad brought a book Quran and was recognized by many as prophet but we dont see any such thing for Mirza Ghulam. Quran tells us that he was the seal of the prophets but what such proof Mirza Ghulam has that he was Messiah. Does he have any book like Quran where he claims that he is Messiah in the way quran says that Muhamamd was the final prophet or the seal on prophets.
4. Mehdi would achieve some tangible results like mass conversion of people to islam ..what are such signs and miracles of Mirza Ghulam being a Messiah and Mehdi at the same time.
5. Messiah would come in Syria , how Mirza came in India?

[شمله ور خراساني]

One thing about Ahmadis:

They will never hesitate to even help their enemies.

Though you are right that the weak stick together, however, Ahmadis stand up to the bullies and help the weak, despite being persecuted themselves.

Just listen to their Khalifah's Friday Sermons. So powerful.

Yes. This is why Israel is one of their main bases. And this is why they have the backing from the Zionists.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Can you please mention some other prophets too as 1400 years passed after Hazrat Muhammad then we should have lots of prophets.
2. You did not tell me whether Mirza Ghulam was a prophet or not or only Messiah or Mehdi?
3. Prophet Muhammad brought a book Quran and was recognized by many as prophet but we dont see any such thing for Mirza Ghulam. Quran tells us that he was the seal of the prophets but what such proof Mirza Ghulam has that he was Messiah. Does he have any book like Quran where he claims that he is Messiah in the way quran says that Muhamamd was the final prophet or the seal on prophets.
4. Mehdi would achieve some tangible results like mass conversion of people to islam ..what are such signs and miracles of Mirza Ghulam being a Messiah and Mehdi at the same time.
5. Messiah would come in Syria , how Mirza came in India?

1-Why should there have been 'many?'
2-He was the Mahdi, Messiah and a Prophet.
3-Not all prophets had books
4-He has, you would have to investigate. Before 9-11 many people were oblivion to Islam.
5-It says east of Syria

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Yes. This is why Israel is one of their main bases. And this is why they have the backing from the Zionists.

Actually, they were there way before the creation of the State of Israel.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Japan is also east of Syria.