Why are Ahmadis considered non-Muslims in Pakistan

[inqilab]

Yes i am familiar with it and that argument is stupid. Person who thinks there is a difference should actually go study.

Allahs Messenger [s] was "khatam al anbiya wal murasalin" meaning he was the termination of prophethood and messengership.

[inqilab]

A brother made a nice refutation site against the qadianis.

ANTI AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT IN ISLAM HOMEPAGE

[Nadir Shah]

Anyone here familiar with the claim that there's a difference between "prophet" and "messenger"? If so, anyone familiar with the arguments regarding which one the prophet was and why? If not, get to studying.

Good point. 'Messengership', I think, is based upon the 'revelation' recieved from Allah. If I remember correctly, even an ant recieved revelations from Allah. I think the point is to first understand the exact nature of the claimed Prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.

[Nadir Shah]

Asif,

Is it true you guys say the Kalimah different?

Malgariya, what is the 'Kalimah'? What is it's origin and source? If I understand correctly, the Shahaadah was used to convert people to Islam in Arabia. Furthermore, the Eeman ye Muffasil is the true summary of the total Islamic faith. The Kalimah can easily be 'Laa Illaha Illalaah, Muhammad ur Rasul Allah, Amanto billah e Yawm al Qiyaamah'. ( I profess that there is no God but Allah, Muhammad SAW is his prophet and I believe in the Day of Judgment.)

[Feroza_Banu]

Good point. 'Messengership', I think, is based upon the 'revelation' recieved from Allah. If I remember correctly, even an ant recieved revelations from Allah. I think the point is to first understand the exact nature of the claimed Prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.

but Mirza GHulam whatever claimed he got revelations from Allah swt... so what does that make him?

[Dreamer]

@ nadir shah... stick 2 socialisim... this doesnt concern you

[Dreamer]

there will be no nabi or rasool after prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that is no NEW prophets ( prophets including both) Christ was given prophethood before Muhamad (PBUH) his return doesnt mean that it contradicts there will be no prophets for on his return he will act as a non prophet capacity i.e as a king in completion of his title messiah ( see meaning behind the term messiah)

[شمله ور خراساني]

@ nadir shah... stick 2 socialisim... this doesnt concern you

he has such deep rooted hatred for islam, he is willing to support anything and anyone to cast doubt and spread falsehood about islam.

This is called the Fourier Syndrome. Very common ailment among marxists.

[Roshina]

I think the point is to first understand the exact nature of the claimed Prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.

I agree. But some of us would much rather stoop to the lowest level possible by talking about how he died. Like, seriously? Could we GET any lower than that?

Ohhh the sick (and futile) attempts we'll make to prove someone's beliefs false!

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Mr. Jinnah regarded Ahmadis as Muslims

Mr. Jinnah regarded Ahmadis as Muslims

Founder of Pakistan refused to brand them as outside Islam
His friendly relations with Maulana Muhammad Ali

(The Light & Islamic Review : Vol.69; No. 1; Jan-Feb 1992; p.15-18)

Introduction / Refused to Brand Ahmadis as non-Muslims.



The Founder of Pakistan, Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah (d. 1948), known by the title Quaid-i Azam (the great leader) accorded to him by his grateful countrymen, believed in the unity of the Muslims on the basis of their common allegiance to the expression of faith called the Kalima Tayyiba (There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah). Sectarian religious differences there may be, but all those adhering to this expression constituted, according to him, a nation with a common cause, culture, history and future.


Mr. Jinnah was on friendly terms with Maulana Muhammad Ali and a great admirer of the work of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Once, attending a party at the Maulana's residence, Mr. Jinnah made a brief speech during the course of which he expressed appreciation of the work of the Anjuman and its English organ The Light. He said:

"I get your magazine, The Light. I am a politician, and read it for political articles, but I also read the religious articles, and I keep a file of the magazine. I receive letters from foreign countries about Islam. People abroad think that, as I am a leader of the Muslims, they can write to me for information on Islam. I forward such letters for reply to your Anjuman."

Refuses to brand Ahmadis as non-Muslims.
In 1944, at a press conference in Srinagar, Kashmir, Mr. Jinnah gave his view on the issue of whether Ahmadis ought to be expelled from certain Muslim organisations. An Ahmadi journalist who was present, Mr. Abdul Aziz Shura, editor Roshni, has made a sworn statement, dated 15 January 1988, about the proceedings of this conference. We quote from this below:

"I, Abdul Aziz Shura, known as Aziz Kashmiri, editor of the daily Roshni, Srinagar, Kashmir, make the following declaration under oath.

"A delegation of the Kashmir Press Conference, Srinagar, which included several leading newspaper men, met Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, President of the Muslim League, at his appointed time, on 23 May 1944 at 11 a.m., at `Koshik', Nishat, Srinagar, and asked various questions.


"I asked Quaid-i-Azam, Who can join the All-India Muslim League? At this, Mr. M. A. Sabir, editor of al-Barq, told the Quaid-i-Azam that the background to the question was probably that in Kashmir Ahmadis were not allowed to join the Muslim conference. Quaid-i-Azam smiled and recorded his reply as follows:


"I have been asked a disturbing question, as to who among the Muslims can be a member of the Muslim Conference. It has been asked with particular reference to the Qadianis. My reply is that, as far as the constitution of the All-India Muslim League is concerned, it stipulates that any Muslim, without distinction of creed or sect, can become a member, provided he accepts the views, policy and programme of the Muslim League, signs the form of membership and pays the subscription. I appeal to the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir not to raise sectarian questions, but instead to unite on one platform under one banner. In this lies the welfare of the Muslims. In this way, not only can Muslims make political and social progress effectively, but so can other communities, and so also can the state of Kashmir as a whole."


"Mr. M. A. Sabir tried as hard as he could to persuade the Quaid-i-Azam to declare Qadianis as being out of the fold of Islam. But the Quaid-i-Azam stuck resolutely to his principle and kept on replying: `What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim'.

"The proceedings of this press conference were published, under my signature, in the Riyasati of that time and the Lahore newspapers, especially Inqilab, Shahbaz, Zamindar, Siyasat etc."


http://www.muslim.org/light/92-1.htm

[شمله ور خراساني]

jinnah himself was an Ismaili kaafir. WHo cares who he regarded as muslim and who he did not regard as a Muslim?

[erlangner]

What Jinnah was, is not issue of pashtoons. let him do rest in grave.Allah and his faith are there. let them decide.

[Roshina]

What's your point, Maseed? ... So what that someone considered the Ahmadiyyas Muslims? Guess what - a LOT of Muslims accept them as Muslims :O

And what's with you and your hatred for Islamilis, too? I mean, why do you always bring "pork-eating Ismailis" into every single conversation you can? Get over yourself. That's none of your business. You should hang around with some Ismailis; you might learn something.

[hairan]

Jinnah was a secular man anyway. He did not like mullahs and their fanaticism. He even had not memorized the prayers. Neither he wanted a mullah state to be created in this region, but the circumstances forced him to work for the British empire and he ended up with something he would be ashamed if living now.

[erlangner]

Jinnah was a secular man anyway. He did not like mullahs and their fanaticism. He even had not memorized the prayers. Neither he wanted a mullah state to be created in this region, but the circumstances forced him to work for the British empire and he ended up with something he would be ashamed if living now.

Ya but why jinnah is the part of discussion. I dont like to discuss someone private life, what Jinnah was and not, and we can discuss his role against and in favour of Pashtuns in this forum.
We can see, his political attitude harm or favoured the Pashtuns cause. But his personeel life is of no interets for us. If he Is ismaili, ahmadi, sunni, or what Bala he is or was. He memorized Prayer or not, should not be our interest.