Death of Jesus Christ may peace be on him.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

Actually, I see what you are saying. However, the actual proceedings of happened were under a publication ban in 1974 until today. Therefore, you and I don't have the right to conclude on that that they are non-Muslim. The whole of the proceedings was political. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto needed the support of the 'ulema of the time and in order to make them happy he went against the Ahmadis. It was purely political.

Did you know that the judge who was presiding over the passing of the motion of declaring Ahmadis non-Muslim in 1974 also wanted to include the Ismailis? He said this to himself: "If Ahmadis are being declared non-Muslim when their actions fall right in-line with the sunnah of the Prophet (saw) and they hold the Quran dear to their hearts, then the Ismailis should be declared non-Muslim just based on their actions and how they allow their Imam to abrogate verses at his own descretion." When this made it to the authorities, this judge was fired and a new judge was brought in to bring this into law.

Therefore, you and I can't know what political motivations happened in that time.

We can simply go by what Allah has given us and that is the Holy Quran.

There could have been political motives behind the 1974 ammendment,do you also think, Qadyaniat ordinance of 1984 when late Zia enforced much harsher rules forbidding Qadyanis using Islamic verses, minarites of mosques like,calling their worship lodges mosques etc were politically motivated?
Today when Qadyanis have a very active lobby and hold higher civil and military posts in Pakistan, i think they cand reverse the ordinance and amendment and instead of shifting their headquarters to UK and playing in the lap of Britts, they should come and clear their position.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

There could have been political motives behind the 1974 ammendment,do you also think, Qadyaniat ordinance of 1984 when late Zia enforced much harsher rules forbidding Qadyanis using Islamic verses, minarites of mosques like,calling their worship lodges mosques etc were politically motivated?
Today when Qadyanis have a very active lobby and hold higher civil and military posts in Pakistan, i think they cand reverse the ordinance and amendment and instead of shifting their headquarters to UK and playing in the lap of Britts, they should come and clear their position.

You just contradicted yourself in one post. If they are not able to reverse these ordinance it means that they are not a political organization.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/world-news-16/pakistan-mosque-attacks-lahore-kill-dozens-1934/

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Ahmadis have a active lobby and hold high positions? Wasnt that Agha khanis?

Yes, you are correct.

When in 1974 that judge who also wanted to declare the Ismailis non-Muslims, Aga Khan told the government that if they do that, he will pull of the his wealth from Karachi.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

From my research, however, I think that Asif can give a better explanation:

1. They believe that Hadhrat Muhammad is not the last prophet
2. They believe that Hadhrat Isa (as) has passed away
3. They believe that the Messiah and Mahdi will be one person

[Millatpal Noorzai]

You just contradicted yourself in one post. If they are not able to reverse these ordinance it means that they are not a political organization.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/world-n...l-dozens-1934/

I never claimed they were a political organization but a lobby group active in Pakistan.
It was your claim that their opponents had used political mantras to declare them Kafir.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I never claimed they were a political organization but a lobby group active in Pakistan.
It was your claim that their opponents had used political mantras to declare them Kafir.

How are they an active lobby group in Pakistan when their members on being killed almost everyday?

AIPAC is a lobby. They know how to bend the US Government on issues they favour.

Ahmadis are in the worst situation in Pakistan. They don't have rights, literally, because they continue to call themselves Muslim. The day they stop calling themselves Muslim is the day the Pakistani Government would give them all the rights non-Muslims would receive.

Recently, they were massacred because the Pakistani Police and Army are not "supposed" to protect them.

In the Lahore Mosque attack the attack started at 1:30pm and the police arrived at 4:30pm. Reports say that the gunmen had enough time to see if anyone was alive before they left.

Do you honestly think these people are a lobby group?

[Millatpal Noorzai]

Their members are killed everyday??????
What world are you living in?
1993 a few Qadyanis were killed,then in 2003 a few and now in 2010.Is that everyday?
Ahmed is the name of Prophet Muhammad swas, i strongly recommend you don't relate it to a group who are in denial of him being the last prophet.
Qadyanis/Mirzayees

[Millatpal Noorzai]

I agree with MWMN. I was so sad when I saw those Muslims dying.

Whoever here thinks Ahmadis are non-Muslims step up here. come with a professional argument. with PROOF or logic.

Check out the constitution of your PAK SARZAMEEN and you will get your answer, don't waste our time!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dearest Noorzai Lala,

it is better to know then to speculate.

The Persecution of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I agree with MWMN. I was so sad when I saw those Muslims dying.

Whoever here thinks Ahmadis are non-Muslims step up here. come with a professional argument. with PROOF or logic.

There was reporter in Jang newspaper who said: How are Muslims going to answer to to Allah for the way they allowed Ahmadis to be massacred helplessly.

By them claiming that Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is not the last prophet is not worst then people who claim that Allah Ta'ala does not exist. Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) fought for the tauheed of Allah not for his finality.

[*Mahzala*]

The Prophet (saw) has said that if you call someone a kafir who calls himself a Muslim then the kafir is the one who called the Muslim a kafir.

The Prophet SAW said the one who calls another a kaafir; it is certain that either of them is a Kaafir. This does not necessarily mean the one who has said it.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Can you please post the actual hadith?

[*Mahzala*]

Can you please post the actual hadith?

Ibn `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) said: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "When a person calls his brother (in Islam) a disbeliever, one of them will certainly deserve the title. If the addressee is so as he has asserted, the disbelief of the man is confirmed, but if it is untrue, then it will revert to him.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Ibn `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) said: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "When a person calls his brother (in Islam) a disbeliever, one of them will certainly deserve the title. If the addressee is so as he has asserted, the disbelief of the man is confirmed, but if it is untrue, then it will revert to him.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

How is this different than what I said, dear sister?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I feel so bad for them. 3 hours of gun blast?

How come Pakistani Govt has declared them as non-Muslims? Have they altered the Quran?

Nope.

They just don't believe that Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet. However, they follow the sunnah of the Prophet (saw) to the T.

The Ismailis have openly declared that they can pick and choose what they want from the Holy Quran, and by no means do they follow the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw), yet they are still allowed to call themselves Muslim. It is all political.