Death of Jesus Christ may peace be on him.

[*Mahzala*]

How is this different than what I said, dear sister?

I was merely pointing out this part of the Hadeeth: one of them will certainly deserve the title. Which is essential, as the next part of the Hadeeth is based on this and would convey a different meaning without it. It was not intended to serve as a correction to your post.

[Roshina]

Let's stick to the topic of "Death of Prophet Jesus," please, guys. We shouldn't have to click page after page after page to see what else has been written about it from members.

We can open new threads to discuss the persecution of Ahmadis and other Muslims in Pakistan, etc., so please let's not discuss it here.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I was merely pointing out this part of the Hadeeth: one of them will certainly deserve the title. Which is essential, as the next part of the Hadeeth is based on this and would convey a different meaning without it. It was not intended to serve as a correction to your post.

Hmmm....would it?

If someone is a self-declared kafir, it would not matter. The emphasis of the hadith is to protect Muslims who call themselves Muslims.

[Nokia_Apridy]

malgaro lag pa pam warta kway

awo dumra tapos pa angrzey ka ta wakay chay

Staso Peghmbar mirza pa kam za ka mar wo.........hahah

[Millatpal Noorzai]

Momin Saheb you think the whole DEOBAND and Ulema in Pakistan are speculating?
I have just repeated what they say and i sure am not ready to challenge their stance about Qadyanis based on some Qadyani sympathizers or misleading Google websites.
If you think by calling Qadyanis Kafir,one becomes Kafir then it is pretty obvious that you are calling thousands of Ulemas in sub continent including Afghanistan (Afghanistan at the reign of Amir Habibullah Khan publically hung a newly converted Qadyani Khalifa)?

Your response will clear the skies.

[*Mahzala*]

Hmmm....would it?

If someone is a self-declared kafir, it would not matter. The emphasis of the hadith is to protect Muslims who call themselves Muslims.

Give it to someone who is not aware of the original wording, the message slightly alters, or so I think. We learn from this Hadeeth that to call a Muslim a Kaafir is strictly prohibited because if the one who has been called as such does not have the traits which makes him a Kaafir, then the one who says it will be held Kaafir. So, I believe the part I added is essential to understanding the Hadeeth. And I am also aware this Hadeeth tells us that to call, without reason, any Muslim a Kaafir or enemy of Allah is strictly prohibited.

Apologies for going off topic to the original poster.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin Saheb you think the whole DEOBAND and Ulema in Pakistan are speculating?
I have just repeated what they say and i sure am not ready to challenge their stance about Qadyanis based on some Qadyani sympathizers or misleading Google websites.
If you think by calling Qadyanis Kafir,one becomes Kafir then it is pretty obvious that you are calling thousands of Ulemas in sub continent including Afghanistan (Afghanistan at the reign of Amir Habibullah Khan publically hung a newly converted Qadyani Khalifa)?

Your response will clear the skies.

Well, the current situation of the Muslims should be able to answer that.

I am not to say anything as such.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Give it to someone who is not aware of the original wording, the message slightly alters, or so I think. We learn from this Hadeeth that to call a Muslim a Kaafir is strictly prohibited because if the one who has been called as such does not have the traits which makes him a Kaafir, then the one who says it will be held Kaafir. So, I believe the part I added is essential to understanding the Hadeeth. And I am also aware this Hadeeth tells us that to call, without reason, any Muslim a Kaafir or enemy of Allah is strictly prohibited.

Apologies for going off topic to the original poster.

I see what you are saying. However, if someone calls himself a Muslim is sufficient. By me leaving out one small portion did not by any means send the wrong message. I made sure to highlight exactly what the hadith meant to convey.

[Nadir Shah]

Though the term "Mutazalia" has not been specifically mentioned but Allah has ordered his slaves not indulge in debates and gathering where individuals based on their humanistic theology challenge Islamic philosophy and victuals.
If not mistaken, there is several ahadith in this regard too.Unfortunately, don't have access to Quran Sharif and books of Ahadith right now.

Malgariya, why are you bent upon making Islam into an intellect control cult? Why should one not let oneself be exposed to new creeds and ideologies and then decide to the best of his judgment? 'Mutazila', I believe, was a sect who was more concerned with the philosophical and metaphysical concepts of Islam and they were brutally suppressed, as can be expected from the people who are insecure in their beliefs.

[Nadir Shah]

The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, as beholden by the Christian theology is the Jewish-ization of the Egyptian Pagan cult of Orisis-Iris-Horus, Orisis being the only Pagan god to be ever ressurected.
Now, two sects of early Christianity, the Nestorianism (of St Nestorus of Alexandria) and Docetism, both condemned and considered heretical by the Church, were prevalent in the Southern Arabian peninsula. These two sects believed that Jesus did not die and was 'taken up' or that the person on the cross was a fake Jesus and he 'escaped' to the heaven. It can be safely assumed that the influence of these two sects is the source of the Moslem belief regarding the Jesus of Nazareth.
The concept of Mahdi or the the Second coming is direct copy/edit/paste from the Jewish->Christian concept fo the Kingdom of Jesus. Similarly, Dajjal and anti-Christ have the same origin in Judaism which inturn borrowed it possibly from the Near East cults possibly Akkadian or Chaldean or the Roman mythology.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Out of Topic

Dear all

I find it extremely Laughable how people at this day and age, are debating the death of a Man that happened like 2000/3000 years ago.

In regards to the sympahties towards the Ahmadis, Let me give you all a realistic view, Ahmadis especially in the west, are given the top class jobs and live a wonderful life, even though they are supposely banned in Pakistan, they still live a very good life compared to others, I would also like to add, Ive noticed that members here, show more love and affection towards Ahmedis than themselves, let me remind you, Pakistan Army has made 2 million Swatis into IDPS in a Week, turned South Waziristan into a land with no trees nor Homes. Where is the cries and sympathies for our own Pashtun people? Where is the Paaki Media when people display all the dead innocent childrens on cotts and beds before they are buried, with shrapnel slicing their bodies into pieces.

Kind Regards.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

^Why do you think they are given these jobs?

With respect to South Waziristan, are the people back home now? I really felt depressed and sad when I saw those image of displacement on television.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, as beholden by the Christian theology is the Jewish-ization of the Egyptian Pagan cult of Orisis-Iris-Horus, Orisis being the only Pagan god to be ever ressurected.
Now, two sects of early Christianity, the Nestorianism (of St Nestorus of Alexandria) and Docetism, both condemned and considered heretical by the Church, were prevalent in the Southern Arabian peninsula. These two sects believed that Jesus did not die and was 'taken up' or that the person on the cross was a fake Jesus and he 'escaped' to the heaven. It can be safely assumed that the influence of these two sects is the source of the Moslem belief regarding the Jesus of Nazareth.
The concept of Mahdi or the the Second coming is direct copy/edit/paste from the Jewish->Christian concept fo the Kingdom of Jesus. Similarly, Dajjal and anti-Christ have the same origin in Judaism which inturn borrowed it possibly from the Near East cults possibly Akkadian or Chaldean or the Roman mythology.

hmmm...the Prophet (saw) never said he was the first to warn about the Dajjaal. He clearly mentioned that previous prophets have mentioned of it.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

^Why do you think they are given these jobs?

With respect to South Waziristan, are the people back home now? I really felt depressed and sad when I saw those image of displacement on television.

Taliban leadership has told people not to return and has even threatened them as well.

Few weeks ago, Mahsud Jirga refused Kiyanis offer to make a Government Lashkar, Mahsud tribel elders do not trust Pakistan nor its Army.

A very well known Mahsud Elder in 2009 before the Operation was being started warned the Pakistan government, that Mahsuds will relocate to Afghanistan if the ill treatment of its tribesmen continues in DI Khan and Pakistan Karachi etc.

Well, homes are flattened, so its going to take a very long time to rebuild

Kind Regards

[asifsyal]

Asalamo Alaikom,
Dear brother if you suggest me the Aqida Tahawiyya, I want to ask you a question; This list is too long, in the following Hadith the list contains a few aqaid (Believes) explained by the Holy Prophet of Islam صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم . Why do we have to complicate Islam, which is so modest and easy to understand??

50 - حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو حَيَّانَ التَّيْمِىُّ عَنْ أَبِى زُرْعَةَ عَنْ أَبِى هُرَيْرَةَ قَالَ كَانَ النَّبِىُّ - صلى الله عليه وسلم - بَارِزًا يَوْمًا لِلنَّاسِ ، فَأَتَاهُ جِبْرِيلُ فَقَالَ مَا الإِيمَانُ قَالَ « الإِيمَانُ أَنْ تُؤْمِنَ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلاَئِكَتِهِ وَبِلِقَائِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ ، وَتُؤْمِنَ بِالْبَعْثِ » . قَالَ مَا الإِسْلاَمُ قَالَ « الإِسْلاَمُ أَنْ تَعْبُدَ اللَّهَ وَلاَ تُشْرِكَ بِهِ ، وَتُقِيمَ الصَّلاَةَ ، وَتُؤَدِّىَ الزَّكَاةَ الْمَفْرُوضَةَ ، وَتَصُومَ رَمَضَانَ » . قَالَ مَا الإِحْسَانُ قَالَ « أَنْ تَعْبُدَ اللَّهَ كَأَنَّكَ تَرَاهُ ، فَإِنْ لَمْ تَكُنْ تَرَاهُ فَإِنَّهُ يَرَاكَ » . قَالَ مَتَى السَّاعَةُ قَالَ « مَا الْمَسْئُولُ عَنْهَا بِأَعْلَمَ مِنَ السَّائِلِ ، وَسَأُخْبِرُكَ عَنْ أَشْرَاطِهَا إِذَا وَلَدَتِ الأَمَةُ رَبَّهَا ، وَإِذَا تَطَاوَلَ رُعَاةُ الإِبِلِ الْبُهْمُ فِى الْبُنْيَانِ ، فِى خَمْسٍ لاَ يَعْلَمُهُنَّ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ » . ثُمَّ تَلاَ النَّبِىُّ - صلى الله عليه وسلم - ( إِنَّ اللَّهَ عِنْدَهُ عِلْمُ السَّاعَةِ ) الآيَةَ . ثُمَّ أَدْبَرَ فَقَالَ « رُدُّوهُ » . فَلَمْ يَرَوْا شَيْئًا . فَقَالَ « هَذَا جِبْرِيلُ جَاءَ يُعَلِّمُ النَّاسَ دِينَهُمْ »

This means that once Jabrael came to the holy prophet of Islam صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم and asked him; what is Iman?
Rasoolulah صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم replied; Iman is that you should believe in Allah, His Angels, His meeting, His prophets and that you believe in the resurrection,
Then jebrail علیہ السلام asked him, what is Islam?
Rasoolulah صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم replied; Islam is that you should worship Allah, and associate no one to Him, to pray, to pay the Zakat, observe the fast of Ramadhan,
Then Jebrail علیہ السلام asked him; what is Ehsan?
Rasoolulah صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم replied that Ehsan is that you worship Allah as if you are seeing Him or if you are not able to see him at least pretend as if He watches you,
Well, here my point is only to explain the Arkan e Islam, this was so simple,
Even then if you insist that what does Islam says about the life or death of Jesus Christ علیہ السلام then I just want to take you back to the day when the Holy Prophet of Islam passed away; that day when the companions learned about the death of the holy prophet of Islam صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم no one was ready to accept it, even Hazrat Umar رضی اللہ عنہ had taken out his sword of its cover and was ready to kill any one saying that Hazrat Rasoolulah صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم has died, that time Hazrat Abu Bakr رضی اللہ عنہ came and made a speech to all the companions and the hadith says that all the 124000 companions were present that day, Hazrat Abu bakr razialah unho recited the verse :
و ما محمد الا رسول قد خلت من قبله الرسل ۔۔۔ الخ


this verse means that Muhammad is only a prophet of Allah, all the prophets have passed away before him,
now if you insist that this verse does not mean all the prophets,
my answer is; Hazrat Abu Bakr رضی اللہ عنہ was trying to explain to them that like all other prophets our Beloved Prophet has passed a way too, because he was a human being thus he had to pass away, then all the companions understood that Rasoolulah صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم has passed away.. THIS LEAVES NO ROOM FOR ANY PROPHET TO STAY ALIVE BEFORE RASOOLULAH صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم BECAUSE IF ANY PROPHET WAS ALIVE OTHER THAN RASOOLULAH صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم NO SAHABI WAS READY TO ACCEPT HIS DEATH, HAZRAT MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD OF QADIAN THE PROMISED MESSIAH AND MAHDI علیہ السلم SAYS:
غیرت کی جا ہے عیسیٰ ؑ زندہ ہو آسمان پر
مدفون ہو ز مین میں شاہ جہان ہمارا

So this was the Frist Ever Ejma made by the Companions of the Holy Prophet peace be on him after His Death, so how can you neglect this??

The belief of Muslims is that Sayyidina `Isa (Jesus, peace be upon him) is the Messiah. He was not crucified nor did he die. He was raised up to the heaven and is now alive in heaven. He will return to earth and lead the Muslims and then after a number of years die on earth.

The beliefs of Muslims are enumerated in the `Aqida Tahawiyya, which states:

100. We believe in the signs of the Hour such as the appearance of the Dajjal and the descent of `Isa ibn Maryam, peace be upon him, from heaven and we believe in the rising of the sun from where it sets and in the emergence of the Beast from the earth.