Death of Jesus Christ may peace be on him.

[Mujib]

Notice the tactics here, brothers and sisters. When hadiths and scholarship outright refute their beliefs, they claim things like "the Qur'an is the only source" and "don't follow scholars." But when it suits their claims, they will cite hadiths and scholars. Notice that the first post in the thread is full of claims that are not in the Qur'an. And after it is the claim that the Qur'an is the only source. Notice, too, the words of so-and-so are cited, and at the same time claims of "Since when are scholars custodians of knowledge?" are being made.

As for the fatwa that was cited (leaving aside its accuracy), it says therein:

There is nothing in the Holy Qur'an, nor in the sacred Traditions of the Prophet which endorse the correctness of the belief of the contentment of the heart that Jesus was taken up to heaven with his body and is alive there even now and would descend therefrom in the latter days.

As the hadiths I cited from Bukhari, and many other hadiths show, this is completely false.

Sahih al-Bukhari - Book of the Prophets:

3264. It is related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "By the One who has my soul in His hand, the time is soon coming when the son of Maryam will descend among you as a just judge. He will break the crosses, kill the pigs and remove the jizya-tax. There will be so much money that there will be no takers for it, and a single prostration will be better than this world and what it contains." Then Abu Hurayra said, "Recite if you like, 'There is not one of the People of the Book who will not believe in him before he dies; and on the Day of Rising, he will be a witness against them.' (4:159)"

3265. It is related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "How will you be when the son of Maryam descends among you and is your Imam from among you?"

[asifsyal]

oh, if you know so much about Arabic, then please translate this:
اذا خلا منا سید قام سید
قوول لما قال الکرام فعول
remember that this is a part of a well-know peom by an Arab, using the word خلا or to make it easier for you خلت in meaning of death or passing away, I wonder how would you translate the verses when you are saying that KHALA means to void left that is not filled

[asifsyal]

I agree with you, most Muslim "scholars" have just memorized things. They don't follow it up with the wisdom that is in what they have memorized. Just like a donkey carrying loads of books.

How else do you think that the ummah is divided? These scholars have taken the liberty to throw those who don't agree with them out of the fold of Islam.

Yeah of course

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Is it not a HUGE Gunaah to call someone non Muslim?

The Prophet (saw) has said that if you call someone a kafir who calls himself a Muslim then the kafir is the one who called the Muslim a kafir.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

I think we should solve one thing at a time. Let Asif, prove his case first that Hadhrat 'Isa (as) is passed away.

Momin Brother, i seek his intentions behind twisting the ahadith and Quranic verses.I would like to his aqeeda first coz Allah swt has prohibited us from debating "Mutazlia'en".

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin Brother, i seek his intentions behind twisting the ahadith and Quranic verses.I would like to his aqeeda first coz Allah swt has prohibited us from debating "Mutazlia'en".

Where does it say we can't debate "Mutazlia'en?"

Jazakallah for the info.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

The Prophet (saw) has said that if you call someone a kafir who calls himself a Muslim then the kafir is the one who called the Muslim a kafir.

Well then all of the late and present Ulema of India,Pakistan,Malaysia,Saudia,Egypt etc are Kufaar.
Abdullah Bin Ubai also used to call himself a Muslims!

[asifsyal]

The belief of Muslims is that Sayyidina `Isa (Jesus, peace be upon him) is the Messiah. He was not crucified nor did he die. He was raised up to the heaven and is now alive in heaven. He will return to earth and lead the Muslims and then after a number of years die on earth.

The beliefs of Muslims are enumerated in the `Aqida Tahawiyya, which states:

100. We believe in the signs of the Hour such as the appearance of the Dajjal and the descent of `Isa ibn Maryam, peace be upon him, from heaven and we believe in the rising of the sun from where it sets and in the emergence of the Beast from the earth.

Please do not rely on the scattered mind of every one,
Allah says in the holy Quran that وَأَنَّ هَذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا السُّبُلَ فَتَفَرَّقَ بِكُمْ عَنْ سَبِيلِهِ ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ
Translation:
And this is the right way that leads towards Me, and do not follow different paths so then they will lead you to away from My path, this is what Allah has advised you to do so that you will prosper,
So I request you to follow that main stream of The Sharea and that is
1. The Holy Quan
2. The Sunna
3. Ahadis
others will just lead you to no wear..

[Mujib]

Bro, please don't say "Muslims" by which you mean only non-Ahmadi Muslims. Say "Most Muslims" or "Many Muslims," since Ahmadis consider themselves Muslims as well. So obviously not ALL Muslims believe the same thing; there are differences.

It's not wise or proper of us to declare others as non-Muslims (when they say they're Muslims) just because the majority of us disagree with them.

Disbelief in the finality of the Prophet's (Allah bless him and give him peace) prophethood is kufr. I.e. it is kufr to believe that anyone after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) was sent as a messenger or prophet.

One cannot deny the most basic and fundamental beliefs of Islam and be a Muslim.

There is an extremist minority Shi`i sect (not the majority of Shi`is), the `Alawi sect, that believe that Sayyidina `Ali (ra) is God. Should that also be deemed Islam?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Notice the tactics here, brothers and sisters. When hadiths and scholarship outright refute their beliefs, they claim things like "the Qur'an is the only source" and "don't follow scholars." But when it suits their claims, they will cite hadiths and scholars. Notice that the first post in the thread is full of claims that are not in the Qur'an. And after it is the claim that the Qur'an is the only source. Notice, too, the words of so-and-so are cited, and at the same time claims of "Since when are scholars custodians of knowledge?" are being made.

As for the fatwa that was cited (leaving aside its accuracy), it says therein:

As the hadiths I cited from Bukhari, and many other hadiths show, this is completely false.

Sahih al-Bukhari - Book of the Prophets:

3264. It is related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "By the One who has my soul in His hand, the time is soon coming when the son of Maryam will descend among you as a just judge. He will break the crosses, kill the pigs and remove the jizya-tax. There will be so much money that there will be no takers for it, and a single prostration will be better than this world and what it contains." Then Abu Hurayra said, "Recite if you like, 'There is not one of the People of the Book who will not believe in him before he dies; and on the Day of Rising, he will be a witness against them.' (4:159)"

3265. It is related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "How will you be when the son of Maryam descends among you and is your Imam from among you?"

Dearest brother, perhaps you adhere that Hadhrat 'Isa (as) is in the Heavens, as do most Muslims. However, to say that the Ahmadis are the only ones that say that Hadhrat 'Isa (as) is not in the Heavens is false.

I presented what Asad has said, as well as Professor Shaltut.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Well then all of the late and present Ulema of India,Pakistan,Malaysia,Saudia,Egypt etc are Kufaar.
Abdullah Bin Ubai also used to call himself a Muslims!

The Prophet (saw) never called him a kafir. He called him the Leader of the Hypocrites.

[asifsyal]

Well then all of the late and present Ulema of India,Pakistan,Malaysia,Saudia,Egypt etc are Kufaar.
Abdullah Bin Ubai also used to call himself a Muslims!

Even then no one will remain a Muslim, because when you say that all the Ulama are kafir, then how could you consider yourself out of the Fatwa of The Holy Prophet صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم ??? Got it?

[asifsyal]

The Prophet (saw) never called him a kafir. He called him the Leader of the Hypocrites.

Come on guys stop this, just talk about the main topic, Is Hazrat Isa علیہ السلام alive or not??

[Roshina]

I would like to his aqeeda first coz Allah swt has prohibited us from debating "Mutazlia'en".

Where has Allah prohibited you from debating ANYONE but specifically those termed "Mutazilia'en"? Evidence, please.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Disbelief in the finality of the Prophet's (Allah bless him and give him peace) prophethood is kufr. I.e. it is kufr to believe that anyone after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) was sent as a messenger or prophet.

One cannot deny the most basic and fundamental beliefs of Islam and be a Muslim.

There is an extremist minority Shi`i sect (not the majority of Shi`is), the `Alawi sect, that believe that Sayyidina `Ali (ra) is God. Should that also be deemed Islam?

Dearest brother,

in the tenets of Islamic belief the "finality of prophethood" is not there.

I might be wrong, but you could perhaps enlighten me.

We have the 5 pillars of Islam and we have the 6 articles of faith. In none of these do we see that professing the "finality of prophethood" makes you part of Islam or breaks you from Islam.