Is being a Muslim a prerequisite for being a Pashtun?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

So have the grand children of Osama Bin Laden started looking at you as an Arab despite your earnest desire to sacrifice every Pashtun whether a newborn baby or a grown-up man or woman for Arab honour sane your own self and your kids being raised in the lavishes of America?

Have the grand children of Dubya Bush Baba accepted your third rate self as lacking just enough melanin, equipped with just enough of a sell your freedom and autonomy for a green back sycophancy, and just Pakistani enough to want to run failed experiments in a dead philosophy on the Afghan people? Please "toramana version 2.0" join the us Marine corps and leave behind your pc screen to grow a pair of testes and hunt down mullah Omar yourself!

[DaMalakandGhar]

Have the grand children of Dubya Bush Baba accepted your third rate self as lacking just enough melanin, equipped with just enough of a sell your freedom and autonomy for a green back sycophancy, and just Pakistani enough to want to run failed experiments in a dead philosophy on the Afghan people? Please "toramana version 2.0" join the us Marine corps and leave behind your pc screen to grow a pair of testes and hunt down mullah Omar yourself!

Your hypocrisy is glaringly evident from the incoherent gibberish that you have vomited above. Frankly, is it the sympathy for Marines and concern for American taxpayer money that is driving your propaganda against the anti-terror alliance OR love for Bin Laden and allegiance to his ideology of terror?

Why the pro-Marine and concern-for-American-lives guise? Don't be a hypocrite. Be a man, come in open instead of working insidiously, grow some testes and fight for Arab, Pakistani, or Muslim or whatever honor with your own blood instead of preferring to spell Pukhtun blood for one or the other holy cause.

Why destroy the lives of poor Pakhtuns while you secure your own and that of your children with infidel money.

[haviZsultan]

Salamoona Admin, good question, As always such things are complex. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder... so too are loyalties...

So for instance George Washington, You, Me, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Alan Dershowitz, and Jane Fonda are all Americans by the technical definition.

And everyone agrees that these people all have American citizenship right?

Yet, if you talk to a Vietnam Vet about Jane Fonda... please do not tell him you are a fan for your own safety. In their view they refer to her as unAmerican for her activities.

Also, when we go back home... for the most part my cousins and others around the world dont view us as "Americans" ... they view white Anglo Saxons as "Americans." To them we are Afghans on the north American continent. However, in their view Ricky Santorum, Jane Fonda, and George washington are Americans.

Now amongst American educated elite... say like Michael Scheuer, Alan Dershowitz and his fifth column citizenry make him unAmerican.

The rhetoric you and I are exposed to generally when we watch the Republican debates here usually involves the crowds booing Ron Paul and calling him "unAmerican"

So by this same token in the Pashtun population we have:

Pakistani Pashtuns, Afghanistan's Pashtuns, subgroups such as Muhammadzai Kabul dynasty pashtuns, rural villagers, Karachiites that are second generation Pashtuns there... Pashtuns in the north of Afghanistan etc.

Ethnically these people are all capable of being called Pashtun. But what happens is when one group is mad at the other?

For instance if Pakistani pashtuns are patriotic Pakistanis they are called Ranjit Singh etc. Indianized... and even non Pashtun. Afghans that support Karzai are called sell outs and non Pashtun or farsiwanaan as a pejorative term. Taliban ideologues are called Panjabis by their killers in the Khost Protection Force.

I would say that for me, the issue is that people generally laugh and sneer at the tribal system now a days referring to the general tribal tree we were all taught as children by our parents (the names of our forefathers) as not having a basis in history. They say these were all propaganda generated in Aurengzaib's time and that these force us to hearken back to the out of Israel theory. These folks are now saying that the genetic heritages of differnet Pashtun groups vary.

Then in that case, there are prototypical Pashtuns. To me, these prototypes... e.g. just as George Washington is the prototypical American... are Mir Wais and Ahmad Shah Abdali.

In my personal view the closer our semblance is to these two men the more Pashtun we are.

Someone has called me a son of Ranjit Singh once. I found it quite amusing. My problem is too much patriotism.

To the question. No a person must not be a Muslim to be a Pashtun. A Pashtun can be anyone. Religion is one thing, race is another. Their are Pashtun Sikhs in Peshawar by the way and some of the tribal areas. Theres a small Pashtun Christian community in Charsadda.

Of course not to say any of them are being treated fairly.

This shouldn't even be a question.

[Manzareh]

Say you do something bad and your father turns around and tells you

"your no longer my son, you dont exist to me anymore"

Ovcourse biologicaly your still his son, but you actually dont have a father anymore,

all you Kaafir Pashtuns have Pashtun blood yes, you can do however many DNA test you want, wont change the fact that you no longer have a race to attach yourself to just as the son has no father to attach himself to. Your neither wanted or regarded as family, infact your dispised by most of the diaspora . You are no Pashtun, smell the coffee.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Your hypocrisy is glaringly evident from the incoherent gibberish that you have vomited above. Frankly, is it the sympathy for Marines and concern for American taxpayer money that is driving your propaganda against the anti-terror alliance OR love for Bin Laden and allegiance to his ideology of terror?

Why the pro-Marine and concern-for-American-lives guise? Don't be a hypocrite. Be a man, come in open instead of working insidiously, grow some testes and fight for Arab, Pakistani, or Muslim or whatever honor with your own blood instead of preferring to spell Pukhtun blood for one or the other holy cause.

Why destroy the lives of poor Pakhtuns while you secure your own and that of your children with infidel money.

Wa wa loooool da malakand khar aka tormana version 3.0! One need not like anchovies or sardines to know each belongs in it's own can you fool. You on the other hand are sitting on your fat hairy A-s's waiting for marines to kill your enemies. Man up

[JattApache]

Before islam, pashtuns were Hindus or Budhists

Being a " muslim " is not an ethnicity

[Afghanistan2010]

Before islam, pashtuns were Hindus or Budhists

Being a " muslim " is not an ethnicity

are you smoking,who told you this that pashtuns were either hindus or budhists,read history my son.

[haviZsultan]

Before islam, pashtuns were Hindus or Budhists

Being a " muslim " is not an ethnicity

I hope these people come to understand that the words Hindu or Buddhist are not 'evil'...

[haviZsultan]

and who give you the authority to say what Pashtun identity is?
the worse thing is you are trying to write a book on Pashtuns while having biased unrealistic view.

Pashtuns can be anyything be it a kafir like mostafa,soldat,demalakandkhar.
but to be Pashtun one first need to be muslim,not just nay muslim but one who does ghairath on Islam.

My book covers all narratives. Even the Taliban narrative. Its neutral. It covers each chapter from the perspective of the faction each person serves. I doubt you know anything about the book. It even criticizes drone strikes. But some people can never realize when someone is trying to do something good for the Pashtun community.

Did you just call a member of PF a donkey just because your views don't meet?

[haviZsultan]

are you smoking,who told you this that pashtuns were either hindus or budhists,read history my son.

Why deny history. According to archaeologists Pashtuns were Hindus and Budhists before they converted to Islam. Who cares anyway. We're all Muslim now. Thats what should matter. Accept the past and move on.

[JattApache]

are you smoking,who told you this that pashtuns were either hindus or budhists,read history my son.

Lol , i know the History

And there is proofs .

Like the statues of buddhas found in afghanistan and kp

You can't accept the fact that your ancestors were Buddhist

Islam arrived there after the arab invasions

The arabs Conquered afghanistan

[haviZsultan]

writing a piece giving a wrong impression of Pashtuns is not trying to do something good.

you guys spread falsehood against pashtuns and high five people such as soldat(who pashtuns will probably chase out of the village/city for his anti pashutn views)and thinking you guys are making an effort for the good of Pashtuns.

no
i called him a donkey because he is a donkey who loves to demonise muslims(99% of pashtun population)and Islam(the truth).

how about the perspective that Pashtuns are fighting for right to independence and their right to live their lives Islamically.
how can you care when you hold seculerism above Quran.

I am giving my readers the choice to keep whatever belief they already have. I am not telling them to believe anything. I am giving them the Islamic perspective, the soldiers perspective, the Mahsud's perspective, the Swatis, everyones perspective. In a piece of fiction I am not arguing about secularism or Islam. I am telling a story.

I am assuming you read my article about secularism. If you would have read it fully you would have noticed I have quoted things out of the Quran to make my point. Secularism is not an alien concept to Islam. We only believe it is such. Initially our rulers conquered all of Persia, Khorasan, Afrika and Hispania out of their tolerance. Today we have lost that very tolerance. This is what I am arguing.

We have tried to impose Islam for 60 years in Pakistan. The result has been we have failed miserably. Zia Ul Haq tried but look where it led. One Maulvi says something is right the other says it is wrong. We have fallen into factions, Wahabi, Deobandi, Barelvi etc.

The idea is when nations spend their time bickering over how to rightly follow their religion they become backwards. Look at UAE and Malaysia's model for success and look at Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan's model if you want to see utter failure. You can see where we went wrong. We tried could not move ahead from the basic question, what is right in our religion. They ignored the question and gave everyone freedom.

We have been trying to impose Islam for years and have failed. Today Muslims don't know what they want. They are fighting each other. In this case it is

Secularism and egalitarian society-these are 2 concepts that early Islamic rulers welcomed. It is only now they are such a problem.

If you have a separate way of seeing things than mine I will not tell you to adopt my perspective. As for the book. If you haven't read it how can you say its against someone. When it comes out read it, then complain and tell me what I should or shouldn't have added.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Amir al Ghaznavi, Khadem E Din E Rasool al-Lah, Nang E Afghan, presents:

The Many Stages of Pashtun

Level 1- Nicca, Please

1000 years ago your Pashtun ancestor left his native lands and settled where you live today. You refer to your history only when questioned, and even then youre just as confused as the person asking the questions.

Level 2- Barely Pashtun

Your great great grandfather was a Nang Pakhtun, possibly accompanying a Marauding army, and settled in northern Afghanistan or the Indian subcontinent. You have since long forgotten your Pashto, look exactly like the people you live with, and have Khan or a Persianized last name. Your ancestor was a hardcore Pakhtun, you are nothing close to it. The Pashto speaking Sikh in the markets of Ghazni is more Pakhtun than you.

Level 3- Pseudo Pashtun

Your parents speak Pashto, but they were useless as they found no need to teach it to you. You take pride in being a Pakhtun, defend them when needed, have a few Pashto songs on your Ipod and can dance the Attan. You even say a few words to sound cool. But when some real azz Pakhtuns starting checking you in Pashto, you sit there speechless, and then shameless reply "Ma Pashto yod na dorom". You are then forced to accept a lecturing from said real azz Pakhtuns who start questioning why you dont speak it. You cry yourself to sleep that night

Level 4- Certified Pashtun

You speak Pashto, your parents spoke Pashto, thats the way it is, and the way itll always be. You know your tribal history, and can say with confidence you are a Pashtun. However your love and pride in your people is shaky, and youre on marriage to a non Pakhtana away from condemning your descendents to Level 3 or below Pakhtuns. An eye must be kept on you

Level 5- Zmarai Pakhtun

You epitomize the saying "Pakhto lara, Pakhto gata, Pakhta kawa". You know all 3 levels of tribal background, speak Pashto with fluency, insist all your kids must speak Pashto, and make it a point to always speak in Pashto with Dari zabons, as you enjoy the awkwardness that ensues. You live with honour and are physically impressive. If you meet these criterias but are darker than a Sindhi farmer or shorter than 5"10, you are demoted to Level 4.

Level 6- Youre such a fukin Pakhtun, the ISI will kill you

You reach this level if you meet Level 5 criteria, meet the disclaimer set below*, and have fair skin, long hair and a beard.

*If you are a Muslim, it does not help you in any way. If youre a non Muslim and you are open and public about your Kafir status, you are demoted to Level 1. If you are smart enough to keep Islamic appearances, and only speak on Din when sarcastically mocking it over a drink, you maintain your status.

[abassinafghan]

>>>>>> Level 6- Youre such a fukin Pakhtun, the ISI will kill you , in exile because persecuted by all , completing his intelectual studies ,
1.85 cm 95-100 kg , bodyfat 15% , very soon to come back to the promised land ....

[khushal]

You are HIGHly funny.

To back your audacious claim you have presented a random essay from "Studyworld" which is suppose to be a bank of essays by random people for their highschool assignments? Even in the page it self, there is a rebuttal to the argument of the essay. Furthermore the argument is made that a "feudalistic culture" existed but obviously the system of governance was not feudalistic but democratic. Such a futile and lame effort to keep your own head up your own arse.

Your so stupid, its almost unreal.
What you fail to realize is that feudalism is an economic system, and democracy is a political system. The north and south both had a democratic political system but their economies were different and that is why they clashed. One was capitalistic and heavily industrial while the south was feudal with landowners that had slaves working on it. Dont tell me you think the American Civil war was about slavery and the Whites actually cared about the blacks that they were going to destroy their country over it. Dont be naive:
http://www.historytoday.com/tim-stan...h-south-divide

And what is this about "my tajiks"? Am I tajiki? Not really.

Your a racist Tajiki, why else would you criticize Hekmatyar but praise Masood, it was you who claimed moral of the story is that pashtuns hate masood, when in reality is moral of the story is pashtuns hate masood and hekmatyar, why dont you.

But if you are saying that Pashtuns were not feudal then you really don't know what feudalism means. The reason why the Durrani empire didn't last that long was simply because it was feudal. So long as a strong king is present, the lesser "lords" feel the need to vow allegiance to the king for support. So the comparison between Afghan Kings and "founding fathers" is faulty because the "founding fathers" FOUNDED something. That something which you claim was already "founded" by the greeks? No..that again is your own ignorance. Specifically it was John Locke who had inspired the "founding fathers". John Locke in Second Treatise of Governance:

Then take this and compare it to Plato's Republic and you will see the staunch contrast between the two ...if you have the insight to discern the difference.

It is no hidden lie that the founding fathers were deeply influenced by their religious convictions. And Thomas Jefferson was explicitly a Unitarian Christian (which is the closest form to Tawhid). And no so much "greek" as you believe them to be.

Even Slavery is deemed permissible in Islam. Even the Holy Prophet peace be upon him had "slaves"....followers of him who offered to be his servant willingly.



And even John Locke discusses Slavery in Second treaties of Governance:

Now this might prove to be a difficult read for you who cannot even discern the difference between a feudal state and a republic state.

So let me say it like this - what you consider to be "freedom" of 60's and 70's, the civil liberties, the feminine right movements, have all been for naught. In reality serfdom has returned full swing, and today, the way that capitalism grows on its own rotting decay, we can safely say that we are living in Plato's republic - where a minority chosen few rule over the rest. If blacks were slaves then, they still are...and what happened in New Orleans when katrina hit just went to show how neglected blacks really are. Is there still not an economic disparity between blacks and whites in America?

It is only because you see some black super stars on MTV cribs once in a while, that you think that blacks are doing better now than before. In reality the economic gap between blacks and whites is the same as it was since the 60s. So all this hoo haa about the 60's and 70s is just media hype that you have put too much faith on. You need to do your own research about America's history and stop acting like you know America because you are in America.

And you know what else my friend? Ahmad Shah Abdali was fluent in Farsi. Several of his poems were written in dari. After all he served in the army of Nadir Shah (persian) and his wife was a mughal. So it could be said that he was a farsiwan too. Now shove that in your pipe and smoke it...


p.s slavery was live and thriving in the North. As a matter of fact most of the slaver traders did their business in New York. (google new york slave trade)

All that stuff you say was not the argument. your taking the argument somewhere else, I dont even know whay your talking about farsi and how influential it is, does that make you feel better, your own tajiki are persianized turks, your original language has been lost and your proud of a language that is not even your own.

But back to the original argument: The fact still remains the same. the bill of rights were written thousands of years before america was even known to europeans.
http://books.google.com/books?id=-qt...0greek&f=false

THE earliest origins of the Bill of Rights lie in classical Athens, for it was the ancient Greeks who invented the revolutionary idea